Ask the readers: Zen To Done - minimal vs. full version?

Karolis Says:

April 19th, 2007, 12:38 pm

I prefer Full ZTD over Minimal simply because there’s more useful habits in the Full version. I would suggest you creating a “guide to zenhabits” page for first-time visitors. Because you have lots of great content but imho you need a better structure for it. “A guide to zenhabtis” could begin with a link to your ZTD system, then links to posts about those 10 habits and so on. As a coming-back visitor I would also like to have a “ZTD summary” to better capture and remember the essence of your system.

I would prefer if you would post all posts at once. Otherwise imagine if David Allen didn’t released his book but presented his GTD concepts in a monthly magazine.

Favorite topics: MITs, Big Rocks, early riser,review goals every week, keeping a log. I would like to see more on successfully connecting your goals with your habits. I guess that means more posts on ZTD implementation.

Anyway, your blog is great. I like that you present useful ideas and habits in a very simple way. You should keep on doing that.

Doug Says:

April 19th, 2007, 12:40 pm

1. I think both systems warrant exploration - everyone is different and some may even pick some hybrid between the two. I’m not sure where I’ll land - I just want to get (re)started.
2. I pull from blogs as I have time and energy to digest the material. I’d rather see all the material up at once so I can choose when to read, when to reflect and when to act.
3. You’re quite prolific. I haven’t found a bad post yet. The current variety suits me perfectly. Keep it up!

Scott Young Says:

April 19th, 2007, 13:14 pm

Leo,

I like the minimal system. Your full system makes sense, but it expands out beyond organization/simplifying to other areas. Better to start small.

Keep doing what your doing in terms of posting. The practical tips are great.

-Scott

Craig Says:

April 19th, 2007, 13:27 pm

I’d like to see a downloadable PDF that includes both. I’d be willing to pay for it.

Mike Ski Says:

April 19th, 2007, 14:11 pm

1) Full. The minimal seems like just the required stuff, but if you’re trying to better yourself why should you stop only at what’s required?

2) It doesn’t matter. If everyone’s taking this system one habit at a time like you suggest, then you’ll have it all written out by the time they get to most of it, anyway.

barbara trumpinski-roberts Says:

April 19th, 2007, 14:24 pm

I like the full ZtD. I’d like it better if it didn’t do the whole comparison with GtD because it would be simpler and less wordy. The minimal ZtD is more concise. Try combining them.

Ben Says:

April 19th, 2007, 14:38 pm

I have only been a reader for a few weeks, but I love what I’m seeing on here. After just finishing the GTD book and taking steps to implement, you start this wonderful series on ZTD.

I strongly vote for the full. I thought your overview was enough, but then you started posting on helpful implementation tips for each step that have been quite valuable.

I’m eagerly awaiting your pointers on how to make habits of the remaining full ZTD steps!

Morgan Says:

April 19th, 2007, 14:48 pm

Full. Each of us will find our own minimal system. It’s all good stuff. Each personality will want to emphasize one thing over another.

Brendan Says:

April 19th, 2007, 14:59 pm

Full ZTD, please! All at once is fine (esp if it get it off your mind!). Looking forward to more posts with your excellent tips for practical implementation.

Ryan Says:

April 19th, 2007, 15:02 pm

I think that keeping both versions would be in keeping with the ZH philosophy of not trying to do everything at once. For those of us who are entrenched, disorganized procrastinators, it is easier to start with the minimalistic approach (or to envision starting, anyway).

Lifemuncher Says:

April 19th, 2007, 15:05 pm

Minimal. I have a very short attention span and like simplicity.

Joel Says:

April 19th, 2007, 15:06 pm

I’m with Morgan - full - as we will each focus on what we find essential.

I vote for all at once - as others have said we can read it as we choose.

Fav posts - morning routine, ZTD, big rocks, anything having to do with implementing habits to achieve goals.

Keep up the great work - this is one of my must read sites.

Jeremy Says:

April 19th, 2007, 15:08 pm

I am also a new reader (found the site, I think, from the guest post on lifehacks about the Firefox OS). I have begun implementing minimal ZTD and like it. I think that the simplicity of it helps one not to focus on the tool, but instead the goals (or desired habits) the tool is designed to help achieve. From what I’ve read so far since getting into productivity blogs, obsessing over tools and methodologies prevents some people from getting past square one. I like the minimal version because the tool becomes transparent after about 2 days. Maybe a better name for it would be Beginner ZTD, because if someone has no experience organizing their life and work, mastering this basic system would allow them to tackle something more comprehensive without getting bogged down in the method.

I should add that I’ve also been trying to implement another of my favorite topics from the site — the morning and evening routines. These, in my case, happen to fold in steps 7 and 9 of the full version into my system, and I kind of do step 5 (trusted system) as part of step 2 (process). So now that I’ve rambled about it, I guess I’ve used a hybrid, as Doug mentioned.

2) Wouldn’t mind seeing it all at once if that’s what you prefer.

3) The morning/evening routines and frugality posts.

Leo Says:

April 19th, 2007, 15:34 pm

Wow … I’m overwhelmed by the response so far. Just to let you guys in on a secret … I live on Guam, where we’re 14 hours ahead of the East Coast and 17 hours ahead of the West Coast. So when I post these things, it’s in the evening for me but early morning for many of you … and then I go to sleep, and wake up at 4:30 a.m. with all kinds of great comments! So if I don’t respond for a little while, it’s not that I’m not listening … it’s just that I’m in dreamland. :)

Thanks, everyone, for the great comments. From what I hear, there is value in both the minimal and full versions of ZTD, so thank you for clarifying that for me. I also hear that I should just post all the ZTD stuff at once … which is really what I want to do, but didn’t want to overwhelm people and have them unsubscribe. Putting it all on a PDF is another interesting idea that I’ll consider. I’m actually in the process of writing an ebook on these Zen Habits topics, and when that comes out, you’ll be the first to know.

I appreciate all the feedback, and will definitely take the input into consideration. You guys rock!

paulkdad Says:

April 19th, 2007, 16:20 pm

Can I have both? Really, I think the Minimalist version is all that’s needed on a daily basis, but when things get “wonky” I like having all the resources of the Full version. Personally, I think they complement each other perfectly, along with a lot of the “supplemental material” found here.

There’s a phrase that Lorin Roche uses in his book, “Meditation Made Easy:” he describes all the “odious rules” people set for themselves when they’re learning to meditate (you have to sit in a certain position, you have to reach a certain state of mind, etc.). The Minimalist version strips away everything that could possibly be considered an “odious rule,” and that makes it an excellent starting point. Would people benefit from the full version? Absolutely. But for a system based on the concept of simplicity, “starting simple” seems apt.

Rajesh Says:

April 19th, 2007, 16:26 pm

Definitely the full version - closest to gtd as well. the minimal version is too minimalistic for my requirements, and as another reader pointed out, everyone will surely tailor it to their own minimalistic version anyway. I also second the entire ztd available as a pdf download instead of in separate blog posts.

Benno Says:

April 19th, 2007, 16:46 pm

I love the minimalist version. It makes it so easy to get up and running in a short amount of time. However I also love the full version as it expands the system just enough. Please post on…. I can’t wait to read the rest.

just Aaron Says:

April 19th, 2007, 16:58 pm

1. I prefer the minimal system, following the two theories that less is more, and something is more likely to be done if it’s easier.

Although I see the worth of GTD I’ve fallen off the wagon. What I might add to your simple system is not to gradually add items from the full system, but instead (gradually) add (some) to the weekly review.

One thing I’m considering: GTD labels your calendar as “sacred.” I’m thinking that the todo list is also sacred. I’m thinking of eliminating context lists, only keeping projects, and moving things from projects to the todo/master list only when I review a project and consider that a task needs to be done “now” (this week/month).

2. You should post when you’re ready to post, and thanks for the warning that there will be more posts than usual.

3. I’m new to the site. What I’ve enjoyed most so far is simplifying GTD and simplifying life.

Cee Says:

April 19th, 2007, 17:32 pm

I prefer the full version - more things to work with. I quite like the posts to be a little separated, rather than posting them all at once - it gives me some time to consider them before the next one appears. But all at once doesn’t bother me - I just bookmark for later reading :-)

Leo Says:

April 19th, 2007, 17:56 pm

Thanks for all the feedback, guys! I really appreciate it. You’re helping to make this blog better.

David Hollingworth Says:

April 19th, 2007, 18:53 pm

Hi Leo

1. I prefer the Full version to the minimalist.

2. I’d suggest continue with the ZTD stuff. For me it will be easier to tie it all together than if there is now a split in the delivery.

3. I’ve really only just begun to scratch the surface of what you have to offer. So far I think the Big Rocks post has been the most useful individual posting; but int general it’s your approach to habits and how to form or change them that’s been the most useful theme for me.

Keep up the good work.

Jack Says:

April 19th, 2007, 19:03 pm

I’d suggest spread the ZTD over a week. It takes time to absorb these types of posts, comment on them, think about them.

Sara Says:

April 19th, 2007, 21:07 pm

With RSS, I can take my time working through all the posts (and I am still on last week - you are on a roll, man!). So really, it is more about how comfortable you are with whatever pace you set (imho). Either way is great, and because of RSS, different readers’ styles are easily accommodated. I for one am thoroughly dazzled with your quality content that just keeps comin’, no end in sight. I personally am ok with a slower pace, but if most readers are ready for more, and you are up for it, hey, go for it!

Leo Says:

April 19th, 2007, 22:01 pm

Thanks for your input guys. I’m leaning towards doing the ZTD posts within the next 2 days or so, just to get them over with. I hope that doesn’t bother you too much, Jack, and other readers who’d rather have it spread out. The posting frequency would return to normal once I get that batch out, so don’t unsubscribe!

Sarah, thanks for your nice comments. I don’t think I’ve said it yet, but my goal is to write useful, interesting content every single day. With an emphasis on useful. I think about what I would find useful, do some research, and post about what has been helpful to me or other good ideas that I’ve found. This formula, of focusing on usefulness, seems to be working, as you guys have responded favorably.

The comments and suggestions from all of you, obviously, have made this site even more useful, and have helped me tremendously. Keep it up!

Bruno Says:

April 19th, 2007, 22:22 pm

Leo, first I’d like to say that I’ve been reading your blog for a week now and I’ve been enjoying it tremendously. Thank you for dedicating your time to write your posts!

As for your questions, do you really need to choose between one or the other? I think both have a function: the minimal may be a gentle introduction to the full ZTD. Keep writing — if the posts are good (as yours) people will not unsubscribe. They might not read them all immediately, but everyone will save them.

Thank you again for your effort!

Amelia G. Says:

April 19th, 2007, 23:19 pm

I like about 80% of the full ZTD system … somewhere around 6 or 7 it seemed a bit more than I need, but the review and simplify bits are crucial for staying sane in an ever more complex environment (only 2 more years until I have a teenager in the house! eek). The Minimal ZTD is a great kick-start, though.

I’d prefer the habits spread over time, otherwise I might not be able to assimilate them all. One thing you could do — get them all off your chest at once, then revisit them much more slowly, like one a month, with how you see them impacting you and the world around you.

I just found your blog, and it was the ZTD stuff that got me onto it, so I’d say, without further research, that’s my favorite topic :-)

David Gonterman Says:

April 20th, 2007, 4:34 am

I would be starting with the Minimalist version of ZTD. It’ll make for a great starter. As I get used to this system, I’ll expand to the others. I’ve already got a Moleskine just for the purpose of putting stuff down.

(Also, you did state that you intended people who use ZTD to work on one habit at a time, and not try for all ten at once. In that case, Minimalist would make for a nice Starter system for new users to work on, and then once they mastered the Minimalist, you can then go on to the other six.)

I’d say spread the habits over time, and then at the end compile them into a PDF. You can improve on both version and find a way to transition from the Minimalist to the Full version.

Mark Dowling Says:

April 20th, 2007, 5:15 am

Hi Leo,

I vote for the minimalist system. Simplicity is good - and if you need clarification or further detail, fall back to full ZTD. If it’s simple and it works… there’s no value in being too ‘prescriptive’. :-)

James Says:

April 20th, 2007, 5:29 am

I think both systems are equally valid.

Neil Ford Says:

April 20th, 2007, 9:37 am

Like Bruno, I’ve only been reading Zen Habits for just over a week (I can’t unfortunately remember what brought it to my attention) and have been absolutely blown away by the quality of the content.

So a very big “Thank You!” to Leo for everything he does here.

As someone who has struggled getting up and running with GTD (due mainly to the fact that I am a person with ADD), the simplistic approach of ZTD appealed immediately. So as not to get too lost I’m starting with the minimalist version and will grow from there as required.

I now have everything to support the Minimalist version, so the speed at which the rest appears doesn’t worry me :)

Of all the content here, ZTD is uppermost in my mind right now, so it’s very hard to say if anything else has or will prove more useful. Ask me again in six months.

For my own use I’ve turned all the article related to Minimalist ZTD into PDFs. Each section has footnotes to additional reading and the URL of the original article. I’ve printed them out on A5 paper that I’m going to get bound so I can have it with me all the time. I’ll happily send a zip file of these on to Leo if he’d like to make them available.

- Neil.

Emeka Okorafor Says:

April 20th, 2007, 10:44 am

Leo,

Your blog is the best I’ve read on implementing GTD. Why?
Because you simplified it to the bare essentials and focused on forming new habits. I think the lack of structure in GTD lends to procrastination and tinkering with setting up a system.

I’ve been trying to implement GTD for over a year now unsuccessfully. Recently I realized I needed to simplify and form new habits. I couldn’t have found your blog at a better time!

Both the minimalist ZTD and full are great. I would suggest guiding new GTD users to hit the ground running with the minimalist ZTD, sorta like training wheels, and then transition to adding more habits in the full version.

This is great. Thank you for doing what you’re doing.

Happy Rock Says:

April 20th, 2007, 10:51 am

Minimalist.

That is just my nature. I personally think it captures everything I want to do in a system.

John Says:

April 20th, 2007, 12:55 pm

Leo, I’m still working my way through the GTD book - Mr Allen surely owes you some kind of cut from the extra monies you’ve channelled his way, eh?! - so I’ve consciously chosen not to read through your full ZTD material for the moment. I did read through the overview of it that you posted several days ago, and believe that I got the gist.

But I thought it best to avoid starting GTD with too much information, and to get the original GTD system into my mind and routine pure and all-complete first before starting to explore variations. But from what I’ve garnered from the GTD book so far, it does seem tilted at the kind of working professional I manifestly am not. (I cannot help but wince whenever Mr Allen throws out his examples, e.g. ‘Ask Sean to update the agenda for the presentation’ et al.) Thus I think that I definitely will end up adapting it to suit my own needs, and anything with the word Zen in it will likely be a first port of call.

So I’d like for there to be a one-stop location for your system in time, perhaps with its own section.

I don’t think there’s any harm in you posting ZTD either in place of or parallel to your regular daily features.

Is it possible to be too productive? I don’t think so. Nobody is forcing anyone to read anything. I think that there’s some hostility to reading on the internet - sometimes some people almost seem to take offence at being presented with a slab of text to digest. They don’t have to read it.

I found ZenHabits via a post you made on Lifehacker. I read in an interview with Gina Trapani yesterday that she aims to update her site around 7 times per day, with at least one new substantive post. It puzzles me how you could be reproached for posting too much material.

I’m on the last leg of the GTD book and will fully implement it soon (I’ve got a half-baked, largely chaotic version in place at the moment; I know, this is very bad of me…) - then I’d be better placed to judge the ZTD full/minimalist question.

Dan Says:

April 21st, 2007, 1:50 am

I’m keen to the full version, but spread out over a few weeks. You could try and work in some reader participation that way too. But why have a fixed number? Why not have as many as you feel like? It seems more zen to say:

There are many habits. Some are Zen. Others are not.

Like you said, GTD isn’t horribly flawed as is, so maybe the problem isn’t with the specifics, but the approach people take to it.

My favorite part of this blog is that it doesn’t focus on any specific topic, and it doesn’t take the whole GTD frenzy too seriously. Too many GTD bloggers out there sound like recovered alcoholics preaching against the demon rum of ineffective personal organization systems.

Hazel Says:

April 21st, 2007, 6:39 am

I would prefer to have the full ZTD. A couple of the habits I already have (even if I don’t always exercise them as regularly as I ought) and if I’m going to spend a week re-focusing and then moving on to a month of acquiring a new habit I want to be able to see where I’m going!
Great blog - always useful to be reminded of what I ought to be doing - which at the moment is NOT reading/commenting in blogland but should be developing a menu-based interface to a jobs and training website. Procrastination rules on a sunny Saturday whilst looking after the grandchildren!

Christian Tietze Says:

May 7th, 2007, 10:10 am

I’m grabbing what is useful :)
Write all your habit posts down—but don’t publish them all at once. You waste “momentum” of ZTD that’s increasing with every new post you write. Develop your new sibling by the way. Get out of your head what bugs you and kep up a steady pace.

And assemble your ZTD posts in a central post! You actually have one, but not every habit (except “1 collect”) is linking to the detailed page. Update it to get a comprehensive starting point, a ZTD-portal :) Or create a subdomain/sub-folder for this so people can visit this “project” of yours more frequently and browse through related content.
You have a lot of cool series (and “projects” like ZTD!) going on from time to time but often there’s no convenient way to see what new things are added. You know, the categories list is ONE way, but for me, it isn’t a very accessible approach. You’re not writing about a certain topic in a linear way. You change your blog topic every weekday and have “side-quests”/projects/series running… Assemble them! Create a static page and put things in order, make lists of posts, write “portal articles” that provide orientation for those who want to continue reading a series of yours but just don’t know where the starting point is.
Your whole blog is an invaluable source of inspiration… I don’t know, I came here because of GTD but now your blog provided just so much more than that! My original aim transformed into something new, a niche which I dodn’t know of—and which your blog fills greatly.

Leo Says:

May 7th, 2007, 18:31 pm

Hi guys … thanks for all your comments and suggestions. Be assured that I’m taking them into consideration.

@Christian … I’m glad if Zen Habits has been an inspiration. Thank you for the positive feedback and all your suggestions. I’m trying to develop a way for people to navigate through the archives better, and some of your suggestions definitely help me. Thanks!

Loida Pena Says:

September 18th, 2008, 23:15 pm

I definitely prefer minimal. I’m sure ZTD full truly is deeper and more filled with good habits but it’s simply too much for a busy college student like me.
On a side note, I can easily manage ZTD much better than I can GTD. Though I rarely get to my blue book I feel I do the most important things in a day.
I would like to see a post on how ZTD could specifically apply to a student (even though I already know how :P).