How to Find Peace Living With a Packrat

Every Wednesday is Simplicity Day on Zen Habits.

Many people who try to simplify their lives and declutter their living spaces find that the most difficult obstacle in their quest for simplicity isn’t the clutter itself … but a significant other or roommate who isn’t on board the simplicity train.

Living with a packrat can be downright frustrating for many simplifiers.

Recently, reader Jasi asked:

I live in a big house with tons of things, mostly my husband’s. He’s not on board with my lifelong minimalism and quest for a simple lifestyle. Damn shame I adore him so. Any suggestions for finding peace with a pack-rat?

This is actually an issue that many people making positive life changes will face: they want to make changes, but others in their life don’t want to make the changes. If you have a spouse who likes to spend a lot but you’re trying to be frugal, or a spouse who eats fatty, sugary foods when you’re trying to eat healthy, it can be very difficult.

But there are ways to live in peace, instead of constant war, with a packrat. Let’s look at several strategies — and you should find the strategy that applies best to you.

Strategy 1: Win them over.
This is the strategy I’ve used with success with my wife, Eva, and it’s the ideal strategy, of course. I didn’t force Eva to join me in any of my changes, but partly because of inspiration from me, and partly because she’s a strong-willed person herself, in the past year or so she has joined me (or worked on her own) to eat healthier, exercise (for the first time in her life!), reduce clutter (it’s a blast!), become organized, and achieve her goals. I am extremely proud of her.

The strategy is to inspire your significant other to join you in your positive life change. You cannot change someone, or force them to change. You can’t nag or bully. However, here’s what you can do:

Inspire. Show them what a great thing this change is for you, how it has helped you and made you happier. Show them how much of a burden is lifted when you get rid of clutter, how simplicity is so much more calming and pleasing. Show them how excited you are about this.
Inform. Talk to them about what you’re going through, why you’re doing it, what it requires, how it makes you feel. Offer to give them some reading material, ask if they’re interested. If not, don’t force it on them. Just encourage. I have sent Eva links from time to time that she might be interested in, and she actually reads some of them. :)
Ask for help. Making a positive life change is always easier and more likely to be successful if you have support from a loved one. Be direct and ask your significant other (or roommate if that’s the case) for their help. Many times, people will give you help if you ask for it. Don’t make it seem like you’re trying to change them, but that you just want their help in making your change.
Make it a team effort. If they are open to the change, and want to read more about it, ask them if they’d like to join you. Sometimes, they will! Suggest that instead of you making this change alone, the two of you do it together, as a team. It can be great fun! Eva and I love decluttering together.
Be patient. Just because you’re excited about making a change, doesn’t mean your partner will be. You have to expect that — people move at their own pace. Just be encouraging, and months down the road, you never know — your partner might start to come around. Until then, don’t be negative at all if you can help it — negativity works against you.

Strategy 2: Zone defense.
If the first (and ideal) strategy doesn’t work, or at least hasn’t worked yet, and your partner or roommate refuses to join you in decluttering, work out a compromise.

A compromise is not ideal — compromises never are. But it can keep both of you sane, so you might give it a try: split up the house into zones. For example, the living room and kitchen might be yours while the home office and bedroom are theirs, or you might even have zones within a room. Again, not ideal, but it’s workable, and I’ve heard of people doing this with success.

Within your zone, you are free to do with it what you want. Declutter, or hoard, it’s up to you. Decorate it how you want. Keep it as clean or as dirty as you want. But no one is allowed to violate the other’s zone, and if you make a mess in the other person’s zone, you must agree to clean it up right away.

This can be a permanent or a temporary solution.

Strategy 3: Find Zen in the center of chaos.
This is much more difficult than the first two strategies, but I’ve also known people who have learned to use it: just learn to live with their packrat ways. Accept that you cannot change them, but that you love them, and just accept their clutter and mess.

It’s difficult, I know. It takes a lot of meditation, a lot of soul-searching, a lot of deep breathing. It may take months or years to learn this, but consider that if you don’t, you may lose your sanity. Accept what you cannot change, and change that which you can.

One way to live with this strategy is to ask your packrat loved one if you can declutter certain things, and keep their clutter hidden in cabinets. Then, you just need to worry about them leaving things around the house — if you don’t like it, you’ll need to clean up after them. If you can live with it, then don’t clean up.

If you choose this strategy, I suggest 1) doing some daily meditation or exercise to find your center of peace; and 2) having at least one corner of the house that is your own, that you can spend time in, reading or meditating or working, without clutter. Your little zone of peace.

Strategy 4: Ditch ‘em.
This, of course, is the most drastic of the strategies, and is strictly a course of last resort. There are times when two people grow apart, and their lifestyles and views on life and hopes and dreams are no longer compatible. In these cases, it could be beneficial to both parties if they go separate ways, especially if staying together causes more harm than it does good.

Now, I’m not recommending that you get a divorce. I would never recommend that — although I have heard of people who have done this because they can no longer live together (due to clutter and other issues). I think this strategy is usually more appropriate for roommates, as they don’t have the issues of a relationship and legal and financial ties to separate. But if things have gotten so bad that you are no longer happy in your relationship, you should consider all options.

See also:

How to Find Peace Living With a Packrat

Every Wednesday is Simplicity Day on Zen Habits.

Living with a packrat can be downright frustrating for many simplifiers.

Recently, reader Jasi asked:

I live in a big house with tons of things, mostly my husband’s. He’s not on board with my lifelong minimalism and quest for a simple lifestyle. Damn shame I adore him so. Any suggestions for finding peace with a pack-rat?

But there are ways to live in peace, instead of constant war, with a packrat. Let’s look at several strategies — and you should find the strategy that applies best to you.

Inspire. Show them what a great thing this change is for you, how it has helped you and made you happier. Show them how much of a burden is lifted when you get rid of clutter, how simplicity is so much more calming and pleasing. Show them how excited you are about this.
Inform. Talk to them about what you’re going through, why you’re doing it, what it requires, how it makes you feel. Offer to give them some reading material, ask if they’re interested. If not, don’t force it on them. Just encourage. I have sent Eva links from time to time that she might be interested in, and she actually reads some of them. :)
Ask for help. Making a positive life change is always easier and more likely to be successful if you have support from a loved one. Be direct and ask your significant other (or roommate if that’s the case) for their help. Many times, people will give you help if you ask for it. Don’t make it seem like you’re trying to change them, but that you just want their help in making your change.
Make it a team effort. If they are open to the change, and want to read more about it, ask them if they’d like to join you. Sometimes, they will! Suggest that instead of you making this change alone, the two of you do it together, as a team. It can be great fun! Eva and I love decluttering together.
Be patient. Just because you’re excited about making a change, doesn’t mean your partner will be. You have to expect that — people move at their own pace. Just be encouraging, and months down the road, you never know — your partner might start to come around. Until then, don’t be negative at all if you can help it — negativity works against you.

This can be a permanent or a temporary solution.

See also:

Posted on 18 July 2007 in Simplicity |
Digg |
Del.icio.us |
Stumble |
Print

Comments (25)

Shine Says:

July 18th, 2007, 6:02 am

What an awesome list! I’m into the Zone Defense - never thought of this so systematically…

Thank you so much!

Pril Says:

July 18th, 2007, 8:38 am

makes me wonder how my partner feels! I’m a in progress packrat my partner doesn’t seem to have a problem with it at least so he never mentioned it!
however I have been the one to say pick up the things in the living room I guess it would be safe to say i hide my clutter or i’m not that bad of a packrat!!!
pass three years i have went through all of my stuff and this weekend i’m haveing a HUGE garage sale. my partner understand that i get attached to little things! but one thing that was huge for me
was stop going to dollar stores i would drop 20 bucks a month at least on crap that either broke or i used for that day for entertainment to be placed on the table and to be forgotten. on top of saving money i don’t have crap laying around that is worthless.
I started the decluter on my own and most packrats hate to be told to toss something I do and if i am told to toss something with out thinking i say no. but if is my idea to get rid of it it’s a golden!
so that may be a tip for some of your readers leo.. Let the human thing it’s there idea!
a few things that maid it easier for me was
15 minutes declutter a day
and the rule must remove before you can bring something new in!
and a supporting partner who never forced me to change!

kleanchap Says:

July 18th, 2007, 8:49 am

Awesome list! Was married to a packrat and now I am engaged to a packrat. Makes me wonder about my choice of women. I made it clear to my current packrat that I have a short fuse with junk all around for which my solution is to throw it out. She is aware of it. I hate to go thru another relationship cycle. Women can be absolutely clumsy and bigger packrats than men. Women typically deny their awkwardness in accumulating items. Their typical excuse is “We may need this someday.” or “It is very important to me.”

Leo Says:

July 18th, 2007, 8:53 am

@kleanchap … thanks for the comment and for sharing your experiences … however, I should point out that what you said at the end is a generalization and I’m not convinced it’s true. For example, my mom is great a simplifying (not a packrat at all) and some of the best authors on simplifying are women. Also, I know tons of men who are packrats. I’m not saying men are worse … but I am cautioning against labeling all women in those terms. :)

kleanchap Says:

July 18th, 2007, 9:15 am

@Leo

I did not imply that all women are packrats. Neither my sisters nor my mother are packrats. They keep what is necessary. My ex-girlfriend gave unwanted items away to charity or to the neighbors. Please read my quote “Women can be absolutely clumsy and bigger packrats than men.” The qualifier is “can be”, not necessarily always. Fortunately, none of my friends or guests who came to my place ever considered me as a packrat either.

The point is that packrat behavior is typically associated with men and then they are labeled as “pigs”. This behavior is equally true about women. Women can be just as clumsy or piggish when it comes to cleanliness. So I don’t want to put them on a pedestal.

Leo Says:

July 18th, 2007, 9:45 am

@kleanchap: I think what makes your comment seem like a generalization is the last two lines that begin with “women typically”. That’s a generalization. :)

But I take your point … men aren’t the only ones who are packrats.

Beth NC Says:

July 18th, 2007, 11:19 am

Sometimes people can use their “packrat” partner as an excuse to keep from making changes themselves. It’s much easier to notice someone else’s clutter and blame them for the chaos. It’s harder to accept responsibility for one’s own stuff! (I would exercise, but my husband doesn’t; the house is cluttered because my wife hoards everything.) This approach is not good for making changes or for keeping a healthy relationship.

So, this thought goes to strategies 1 and 2 - if you want to make changes, you have to decide to go ahead and not wait around for others to change. Maybe you’ll inspire the other person, but at least you can improve your own habits.

Grayson De Ritis Says:

July 18th, 2007, 11:32 am

Good advice, Leo. I’m not nearly as patient as required to live with a packrat though; but I’m working on my tolerance for that.

Debbie Says:

July 18th, 2007, 12:22 pm

On strategy 3: “It takes a lot of meditation, a lot of soul-searching, a lot of deep breathing.”

For me, back rubs help. Also, having my partner’s fabulous music playing. Whatever it is that you love about your housemate, keeping it in the forefront can really help with this strategy.

Craig Huggart Says:

July 18th, 2007, 13:08 pm

Leo, two comments:

One, I have a friend who is in exactly this situation. I passed it along to him (he has been married to a pack rat for over 40 years!).

Two, with 5 kids, a wife, and pets at my house, I live by strategy 2. It really makes a difference for me.

Keep up the great posts!

Craig

AgentSully Says:

July 18th, 2007, 14:53 pm

very useful advice. anytime you differ with the people you live with, it takes a lot of patience to make things work. thanks for this helpful advice!

Monica Ricci Says:

July 18th, 2007, 16:36 pm

If we’re being honest, (and why wouldn’t we be?) it may sound cold, but this would be a very tough thing for me to do successfully. I actually think it would be a dealbreaker for me, much like smoking or drug use would be when choosing a life partner.

I really admire those who choose to live with someone who is a packrat. I think I’d have to live separately in order to preserve the relationship. Fortunately for me, Christmas Boy and I are mostly in agreement about how much clutter we can tolerate in the house. (His threshold is higher than mine, but it’s definitely not an issue for us)

Thanks for the insightful post, Leo as always.
~Monica

Jasmine Says:

July 18th, 2007, 17:20 pm

I’ve been enjoying your posts, as this is an issue of mine. My biggest issue is determining which paperwork I need to save from my various bills and loans, and which paperwork I can get rid of, and how long I need to keep what I do save. Do you have any posts about this, or can you suggest a site that might be helpful?

Myself Says:

July 18th, 2007, 17:32 pm

Hi. I’ll be waiting the next article tittled:
How to ditch the our inner packrat in 10 easy steps. Thanks.

Patrick Allmond Says:

July 18th, 2007, 20:57 pm

I’d definitely opt for #3. All of the other involve abandoning the relationship or trying to change somebody else.

In a situation where you are living with a packrat it is you that has the issue, not the packrat. Trust me - the most peaceful thing you can do for everybody involved is to accept it and move on. In the end it is just stuff and that relationship is more important than the stuff and where it is tossed.

Patrick
http://stopdoingnothing.com

Peggy Collins Says:

July 19th, 2007, 8:33 am

I was so happy to see “ask for help” on your list. That’s a huge problem for many today because of our cultural value that says asking for help is a weakness. Who are they kidding? You’re putting yourself on the line and that’s weak?
I’ve written a book about all of this entitled Help Is NOt a Four-Letter Word: Why Doing It All Is Doing You In, published by McGraw Hill identifying a self-defeating behavior called the Self-Sufficiency Syndrome where many of us can’t ask, do everything all by ourselves, can’t delegate cause no one can do it as well and are headed for burnout!!
Hope you’ll take a look and let me know what you think. It’s a near epidemic.
Thanks for including “asking for help” on your list!! People need to heed that!
Peggy Collins
Speaker, Trainer, Author
http://www.helpisnotafourletterword.com
pjcollins@earthlink.net

porcelaine92 Says:

July 19th, 2007, 12:18 pm

I unfortunately lives with a packrat since two years, having mistakingly thought, when I met him, that the mess in his home was due to depression after a bitter separation.
but I realised later that his mother is an even worse packrat !
I know now how profoundly difficult it isfor him to let almost anything go.
It is tough for me as I am a very clean (his mother is not, for example: her house is a pure disgusting mess!) and quite “oriental zen” house keeper.
So we try to find a way to survive this hudge difference : my guy has his office to himslef (I cannot set a foot there without a trapped feeling !) where he stocks clutter freely,
I fight for survival in the living room and kitchen (”common rooms” where he admits being able to walk on the floor may be useful, so I can keep them quite orderly)
and I now work to find my own space where I will be able to create my own zen harmony (very likely, next step will be a smal chalet in the garden, entirely mine, where I will retreat when overflowed).
So, it s possible to survive this difference, but it certainly is an effort for both of us (his previous wife was a worst rat pack than him, so he never had an issue on this before!).
But the thing is : when you really care for someone and connect on other levels, you can learn to live with his particularities …he does accept mine !
and I did not “choose” a ratpack, I fell in love with a guy who revealed himself being one ( I am 42 and had a few other stories before.. never implicating ratpack. so there is no “choice” here).
I often fight with him on the subject, but I also consider he teaches me a few things there, about tolerance for example (not my best quality till then). so we are both growing with this ! even if it is sometimes painful…

daydreamr Says:

July 20th, 2007, 15:20 pm

I admit to beng a packrat but I have gotten better over the years. I think a lot of it has to do with finding a system that works. For me that meant going to the $ store and getting a bunch of bins,baskets, totes, and organizing everything. I have been working on this system for 2 yrs and I am always looking for new & better ways to do things. I am constantly looking for more containers, tins, etc. I like the idea that everything has a place. I take a few min in the evening to put things away. I have noticed that I can think a lot clearer in a well organized home and don’t like to wake up to a sink full of dishes and crap strewn all over the place.I don’t believe in tossing every little thing out, there are things I reuse like twisty ties, plastic bags, etc. but I have a jar for the ties and so on. I have found the things I save to be useful and I can relate to people saying “I might need it someday”. I think it can help save money too, at least It’s helped me.

Stephen Says:

July 20th, 2007, 18:40 pm

But what if YOU are the packrat, which is my case? I’m starting to throw things out now. Perhaps I can try a little bit each day? Okay, back to work!

Georgio Says:

July 21st, 2007, 15:30 pm

Another AWESOME post Leo! You are the gretaest! This topic confirms why I like reading your blog so much - you write about the very topics that we all may be experiencing and feeling frustration about inside, but don’t know what to do about the issue, orr where to look. Your blog is so very helpful to me. Thanks a lot Leo.

paulkdad Says:

July 24th, 2007, 8:38 am

Great post, Leo! My wife and I have gone through “stuff” wars in the past, and it’s definitely not pleasant. I have attempted the things you list under “win them over,” and can honestly say that it has made a big difference. The only thing I’d suggest adding to the list is this: Recognize their every effort, no matter how small.

I disagree with Patrick’s idea that any attempt to “change someone” is somehow wrong. Those of us who are parents attempt to change our children every day (every time we correct their behavior). And I don’t honestly believe that adults are that different from kids… especially when it comes to bad habits. We may even be worse (older, more stubborn, etc.). It is possible to love and respect someone and at the same time say, “I’d really prefer it if you did this instead of that, and here’s why.”

William Profet :: OneJobTwoSalaries.com Says:

July 25th, 2007, 4:08 am

The universe is so huge that we think it is in chaos. Our lives are not so huge but a lot of people live in chaos because of procrastination, laziness, etc.

“Throw away the unused things and simplify your life!” - I will stand on that! :)

MRC Says:

July 25th, 2007, 16:34 pm

Glitch in “How to Find Peace Living With a Packrat”

The clutter of a packrat is the physical things. If you let them affect your “zen” then maybe you haven’t reached Zen.

clarice Says:

April 8th, 2008, 8:24 am

kleanchap - just an observation but it sounds like the relationships did not work out more because of your rigid attitude than the clutter. It is interesting however that twice you’ve chosen women with tendencies toward clutter - best wishes to you and them.

Clarice

Brenda Says:

June 20th, 2008, 12:07 pm

I’m newly married to a wonderful man who is a widower. His wife died three years ago and he has three grown children. Needless to say, he’s a packrat and I’m not. I moved into his house because it was larger and I’m going to be selling my house. I have gone through my house and gotten rid of a lot of things that I didn’t want to take to my husband’s house. He has thrown out a few things to accommodate my moving in with him, but in my opinion, not nearly enough. I’ll give him a year and then I’m going to start going through his basement and throw out his late wife’s old beauty supplies (she used to be a hairdresser) and his kids’ old toys and other stuff. What do you think? There’s not a question that he loves me and was ready to remarry; he just tells me that it’s hard to throw things away because he paid for them and his adult children might want them someday. Yikes! By the way, I don’t have children, so maybe I don’t understand. Let me know your thoughts.