Exclusive Interview: Stephen Covey on His Morning Routine, Blogs, Technology, GTD and The Secret

Clay | Mind Like Water Myth Says:

February 24th, 2008, 21:07 pm

That opening quote reminded me of another very good one:

Efficiency, which is doing things right, is irrelevant until you work on the right things.
-Peter Drucker

Neither of these are myths.

~Clay

Clay | Mind Like Water Myth Says:

February 24th, 2008, 21:13 pm

P.S. Thanks SO MUCH for bringing this Leo. I love this man.

JS Says:

February 24th, 2008, 21:26 pm

Bravo Leo!

Your blog is becoming an OCD type thing for me. Now I must buy a book to show proper respect for your quality posts.

Tai McQueen - WordSpace Says:

February 24th, 2008, 21:54 pm

Thanks for a fascinating interview Leo, and while I’m at it I’d like to mention that Zen To Done is proving to be a great help as I balance working from home with having a new baby around.

Simon Says:

February 24th, 2008, 22:08 pm

“But for me and my world they are too simplistic and superficial.”

While I admire his work I’d suggest that it’s because of this perspective above that many people find Covey hard to apply straight up. If you can’t get the day to day dross in your life sorted then you’re probably not going to have the headspace or inclination to try and practice his seven habits. GTD in my view is deliberately simple but I don’t think it’s superficial.

Ryan Says:

February 24th, 2008, 22:09 pm

This guy is amazing. I can’t believe you got an interview with him! What he says seems so far above my attitudes–I could learn a lot from him. He seems so focused on the inner self, yet his circle of influence is so great. Wow–that’s all I can say.

Mara Says:

February 24th, 2008, 22:29 pm

Don’t get me wrong here — I admire Stephen Covey and am trying to implement the 7 Habits in my own life. Still, I was amused by his comments about “his team”. I guess it’s easier to ignore “urgent” things and only follow your goals, if you know you have a team to look after all those other tasks for you.

(And does this mean that people out there have a life goal of doing for Stephen Covey all the little things that he doesn’t have time to do himself?? Are his assistants living their dream, too??)

For me, I have small children and elderly family members to take care of, and they fill my life with many little urgencies I can’t pass on to others. I do aim to find time to further my personal goals, but I bet it would be a lot easier if I had a “team” to help me! :-)

The How-To Geek Says:

February 24th, 2008, 23:06 pm

Excellent interview, I’ve always wondered what Steven Covey does now that he’s already successful.

I’d be interested to know what he’s changed over the years… what did he do before he was successful that he doesn’t need to do now?

Nick Says:

February 24th, 2008, 23:16 pm

I was taken aback by the comments about GTD and The Secret. They struck me as rather arrogant, and highly disappointing.

Torley Says:

February 24th, 2008, 23:36 pm

First, congrats on the interview, Leo! I haven’t found the “7 Habits” to align particularly well with my life, but have respect for the success Stephen Covey and his son have achieved.

But, I should wonder if Stephen really meant what he said about GTD — it’s a glaringly inaccurate statement, as the initial mechanics of GTD are quite complicated. (I muse that it tied some of my colleagues’ minds in knots!) Also, the numerous blog posts I’ve seen offering simpler variations of GTD attest to that experience!

I wonder what Covey thinks of Tim Ferriss’ 4-Hour Workweek book, tho. :)

Marelisa Says:

February 25th, 2008, 0:08 am

Mr. Covey has done a great job teaching people to think of the big picture of their lives, decide what they want to accomplish in the long run, and then break it up into small daily victories that move you steadily toward your goals. You should fill your days with activities that are taking you along the path to hit your targets, and not just mindlessly checking off items on some “to do list”.

Thank you for sharing this with us, Leo.

Warren from Zen Problog Says:

February 25th, 2008, 0:19 am

Very insightful. I think he put a lot of thought into these answers.

Kelly Rigby Says:

February 25th, 2008, 0:29 am

Congrats Leo on getting to interview someone you admire. What a thrill!

As for me, I have never read any of Stephen Covey’s work and I am unsure whether his answers have inspired me to change that.

See you tomorrow.

:) Kelly

Clay Collins Says:

February 25th, 2008, 1:00 am

My feeling is that Covey’s material and GTD operate on different levels. What I love about Zen to Done is that it kind of merges Allen’s excellent bottom up approach with Covey’s top down approach (and vastly simplifies both approaches, in a good way). That’s just my take. I also think it’s worth mentioning that Covey is a Mormon and that his religion probably affects his perspective on “The Secret” (perhaps). Just my thoughts.

Thanks, again, Leo. For sharing this.

~Clay

Leo Says:

February 25th, 2008, 1:28 am

Regarding Covey’s take on GTD: First, remember that he said he enjoyed those books and found that they contained elements of wisdom and practical advice. I think there’s truth in that.

Second, when he says “superficial” he doesn’t mean that they don’t have meaning or value … he means that they only try to tackle the everyday tasks and papers, which is really the main goal of GTD. Sure, it can be used for deeper levels, but it isn’t designed that way as much as Covey’s system is designed to start at the deepest levels (in his case, spirituality) and build around that.

I don’t think he means superficial in the way that most of us take to be insulting. I think he just means that it doesn’t deal with the deeper meaning of life, which is what he needs in his life. It’s a valid perspective, remembering that we all have different needs and goals.

Eugene (Editor, Varsity Blah) Says:

February 25th, 2008, 1:45 am

Hooray for Covey! I’ve been a huge fan of The Seven Habits since I read it in high school. It’s also been a great inspiration for me in terms of my mission statement, my priorities, and even my first book.

Last week, I published the second part of my two-part review on the book, in case anyone is interested. You can check it out at http://www.varsityblah.com/the-seven-habits-part-two/

(Thanks again, Leo! This is a great way to start the week!)

Georgio Says:

February 25th, 2008, 3:50 am

Simon is right Leo, and The David said it too - if you don’t get the runway level stuff sorted you won’t do the ‘reason I’m on Earth’ stuff very well. IMHO you’re work is far better than Steve Covey’s. And before the uproar - I’ve read all his stuff religiously (excuse pun) and its airy fairy top-down nebulous stuff.

JoddeHaa Says:

February 25th, 2008, 4:01 am

Honestly, Covey sounds like he’s really out of touch.

Leo Says:

February 25th, 2008, 5:23 am

@Georgio: I totally understand the need to sort the runway stuff first … but I’ve also found that unfortunately the runway stuff can take all of your time if you let it. The trick I think is to find a balance … don’t let the runway stuff overwhelm your life … and make the First Things First stuff come first, so that the runway stuff is leading to something important.

What I’ve found more effective than focusing on clearing your runway stuff first is actually taking some time off of your busy schedule … like taking a couple days off for a retreat, or devoting a weekend … and really focusing on what’s important. Covey doesn’t really talk about doing that, but for me it’s important to get away from the day-to-day stuff, to step back, and to really think about the big picture stuff. That helps you focus on your priorities, and helps you align what you actually do everyday with what you really want to do every day. :)

Simon Says:

February 25th, 2008, 5:58 am

Agree Leo that you don’t want to get stuck on the runway as there’s real potential that you’re actually doing the wrong things ie. they will not assist you achieving your goals. But having gained some control over your stuff at the runway level I think it is much easier to gain the perspective that we all seek at those higher altitudes. Top down while leaving the runway unattended hasn’t worked for me in the past - probably why GTD struck a chord with me.

FWIW my initial comment was prompted I think from surprise as I didn’t expect the sorts of answers Covey gave to your questions. Perhaps unfairly, I thought his views were a little arrogant and narrow-minded. Probably not what he intended. To each his/her own I guess…..

banji - LessonInLife.com Says:

February 25th, 2008, 6:42 am

I particularly like his take on private victory. I guess we should sometime look at our daily task as a war, and by winning it we will deserve its bragging right. It is more fun this way. (am I applying the concept right?)

Personally, I really don’t mind if he is even an anti GTD etc. It really boils down to what we can learn from someone. irregardless if he is a well known thinker or a common man you see on the street.

I wonder though, how did you manage to get the interview? :)

Kramii Says:

February 25th, 2008, 7:24 am

Fantastic interview! (Most timely, too - I did a 7-habits course last week, and have started reading “First Things First”). It is very interesting to hear how Covey “eats his own dog food”, ie. how he spends his own time - rather inspiring I think. It is a shame that he wouldn’t be drawn on specific book recommendations. As to his comments on GTD - Covey supports his own time management system with a lot more WHY, whereas GTD focuses on HOW.

Smarky Says:

February 25th, 2008, 7:54 am

I’m sorry but I never understand anything thing that guy says, it all seems a load of nonsense that sounds clever but doesn’t actually mean anything.

I think he said it best when he said “It all sounds oo simplistic” Covey likes confusing the heck out of us to make us believe he actually has something to say.

John Hollandsworth Says:

February 25th, 2008, 8:37 am

I’ve always admired Covey as a brilliant writer and man of wisdom. I took pages & pages of notes when I read 8th Habit.

Covey REALLY stepped on my toes though– the guy uses the first 30 minutes of his day studying Scriptures. I don’t do that— geez, how many clergy even do that? I’m going to start reading the Bible first, blogs second in the morning.

Stephen Martile Says:

February 25th, 2008, 8:47 am

Hi Leo,

I’ve never read any of Stephen’s books but I enjoyed the interview. Thank-you.

Stephen Martile
Personal Development Made Simple
http://www.stephenmartile.com

Greg Says:

February 25th, 2008, 8:55 am

I have to agree with some of the others. I thought the most interesting part of the interview was seeing how disconnected from the real world that he has become. All the reference to “his team” and having others deal with email, etc. When you have a team that handles your personal productivity issues - I feel that you lose credibility in trying to show others how to be productive. Just my 2 cents.

http://www.ruthlessproductivity.com

Avrum Nadigel Says:

February 25th, 2008, 9:19 am

As a practicing Jew, I found S. Covey’s priorities to be an inspiration.

However it was these comments:
“elements of wisdom…” and “too simplistic and superficial” to be fair and accurate. They also made me smirk.
Bravo Covey. If nothing else, I knew the GTD soldiers would be up in arms over the criticism.

Finally, I found the 8th Habit to be an utter waste of time. Just my .02.

Jarod Says:

February 25th, 2008, 9:32 am

I think we have to consider his reference to his team in the proper context. I would imagine that with the success that his books, lectures etc. have had, the number of phone calls, emails, appointments would be huge and could hardly be handled by himself alone.

Avrum Nadigel Says:

February 25th, 2008, 9:35 am

“how disconnected from the real world that he has become”

True. My hunch is that people find the 7 Habits useful as wisdom, both timeless and meta-culture/religion. I’d imagine that David Allen’s life (successful people in general) live lives very different from their readership.

“When you have a team that handles your personal productivity issues - I feel that you lose credibility in trying to show others how to be productive”

We should all be so successful that we can afford to create employment for other’s to do tasks we don’t enjoy and/or take up too much of time (from doing the Quad 2 things).

Relly Says:

February 25th, 2008, 10:23 am

Flippin ‘eck. What kind of parallel universe does he live in?
I’m soooo glad his team were available to channel their inner-Covey and write some answers for us mere mortals to read.
I always thought his books were okay, nor brilliant but with some, ahem, ‘elements of wisdom’ but that interview did nothing to make me think he knows anything about anything.

I’ll just stick with Zen Habits and GTD. I think I might actually achieve more with that than by doing yoga in the shallow end of a swimming pool for 30 minutes each morning.

What a kn*b.

Never the Same River Twice Says:

February 25th, 2008, 10:25 am

IMHO the best part of this interview is the discussion it has inspired. I agree with all of the commenters who have pointed out that Covey seems a bit out of touch and just a tad too arrogant. At the same time, I’m forced to admit that his lifestyle complete with a team to free him from the daily grind is something that I aspire to.

Is this a moral quandary? Meaning, is it wrong to employ others in order to free yourself from drudgery? Are you keeping those people from accomplishing their own purposes? Or is it possible that there really are people who aspire to filter Stephen Covey’s email for him? And by the same reckoning, are there people who enjoy looking up restaurant listings for me?

Rearden M at Extraordinaryblog.com Says:

February 25th, 2008, 10:46 am

I have to say this was an interesting post Leo and I have been a small fan of Covey, in particular First Things First.

But most of his answers on how he manages life, how he gets things done etc come back to “I have a team of people”. Whilst I’m envious, and I’m happy for him, I don’t really think that this gives any of us mortals trying to improve our lives much useful material to work with.

So I guess, for the moment, I’ll stick to more practical tools, such as those you have explained, in my personal quest for (as I call it) an extraordinary life.

Josh Says:

February 25th, 2008, 10:52 am

Is it just me or does it seem like most of his responses are almost copy-pasted out of 7-habits? Maybe I’m just being a cynic and he really focuses on what he preaches every day but it kinda seems like he didn’t put much thought into most of these questions.

The response to GTD/Secret is exactly what I expected too. 7 habits is all about a “higher level” things it seems. Although I loved the 7 habits when I first read it 10 years ago, now I think the only things I really apply is the proactive bit and putting first things first.

Covey is 76 so 30 minutes in the pool daily is probably quite an accomplishment FWIW! I hope I’m able to do that when I’m that old.

Will is GALVANIZD Says:

February 25th, 2008, 10:59 am

Wow. Awesome interview Leo! This brings even more legitimacy to the self-improvement blogging community.

It bridges the mainstream self-improvement “gurus” with those who are actively empowering themselves as well as their readers, blogging their progress, knowledge that they’ve learned and new insights in creating more effective knowledge and distributing it to the masses for free.

Having gotten into self-improvement through Tony Robbins was great, but it was a lonely journey. I’m so happy to be a part of the blogging community!

- Will

Jason R Says:

February 25th, 2008, 11:05 am

Boy, those were some generalised, politically correct answers…
Maybe it would have been better to interview his ‘team’ instead.
I’ll admit that I’m not one of his followers, like some of you. From this interview, I get the impression that as long as he has his team to help him, he can help himself.

* I have nothing against him, this is just the impression that I get from the interview. I’m very happy for the people that his system helps.

Will is GALVANIZD Says:

February 25th, 2008, 11:33 am

He comes off as pompous, though.

Rolf F. Katzenberger Says:

February 25th, 2008, 12:09 pm

For those who wish to gain an overview of the 7 Habits without having to buy the book: I’m halfway through my 8-part review of it. You can find the first 4 parts online here:
http://www.evomend.net/en/stephen-r-coveys-7-habits-highly-effective-people

Balfour Says:

February 25th, 2008, 12:12 pm

Haven’t read this whole thing - what a coup, Leo! - but went straight to the morning routine, because, I guess, well it’s morning, and it’s something I have control over. “Private victory” - great concept! Looking forward to the rest of this.

Harmonix Says:

February 25th, 2008, 12:48 pm

I think its funny that some of you say that his comments are too
general and politically correct, while others say that they are
arrogant. I guess everyone reads what they want to.

Anyway, one of my closest friends is part of Dr. Covey’s team and I’ve
had the opportunity to talk to him a few times about many of these
topics. I just wanted to add some insight.
I’m not trying to defend Dr. Covey (I don’t think he needs it) but to
add context.

First, about his team.
As it has been pointed out, Stephen is 76 years old. He is also
writing 4 books right now, traveling the world, the chairman of the
board for FranklinCovey and has 6-8 speaking engagements a month.
So when most people his age are chilling out in a condo and a golf
cart, he is still going at full speed. To do this he has a team that
allows him to only focus on what is REALLY important.

Would I like a team like this? Sure. That is why I married a wife that
I love and who’s strengths take care for many of weaknesses. It is why
I try to work with others that aren’t “like me” but that bring new
ideas to light.

I also think his response is an attempt to pay homage to his team. A “I couldn’t do this without them.” sort of thing.

My favorite part of this interview is Dr. Covey talking about how most
meetings are pointless. I’ve talked to my friend some nights to find
that he has spent the last 2 weeks prepping for a meeting with Stephen,
someone he sees everyday. When I ask why all the preparation he said “You don’t ask Stephen to go to a meeting unless you know it is going to be productive”. The next day I was in 4 company meetings ( I work in software) that were pointless. 3.5 hours of my day was spent hearing people restate the opinions they had before the meeting. I wish people would say, “You don’t ask Harmonix to a meeting unless you know it is going to be productive”. Sigh

Next, about the GTD comment.
I think there are 2 parts to this. First, if you read Dr. Covey you’ll learn that he isn’t a fan of “techniques”. Or at least, he finds them interchangeable from one to another. In fact, I’ve heard that he is often frustrated with FranlinCovey’s focus on techniques. He is a purpose man. An “inner self” guy and he often states that not reaching your goals has less to do with discipline and more to do with connecting with “why” you set the goals. After that, how ever you execute is up to you.

Another part is that you asked an author about other books in a very competitive field. Of course he looks at his book as different and others as “not getting it”. So do the other authors. I’m sure if you asked them about the “7 Habits” they would say that he was missing something as well. That it is to cerebral or something. The last thing he is going to do is unofficially endorse another self-help book on a public blog.

All things being said, I joined his community this weekend and was pleasantly surprised. It seems like he is trying to create a place where the hard core fans can meet and connect, and yet where he can teach the “7 habits” in bite sized chunks for the people that are first starting up.

Harmonix Says:

February 25th, 2008, 12:51 pm

I have no idea why my formatting is all messed up. ;)

Dot Hage Says:

February 25th, 2008, 13:20 pm

I really enjoyed the comments. Especially Clay | Mind Like Water Myth Says, because I was wondering what sort of spirituality Covey was talking about in his morning routine, and he contributed that Covey is a Mormon. I like the fact that he considers both the business and the personal in his plans for the day.

When I read The Seven Habits…, I didn’t find it was all that relevant to my life. Like many productivity books, it seemed to be geared mostly towards male executives, which made it out of touch, then and now, with my situation.

As far as his “team,” I interpreted his comments this way. An important principle of being a good manager or executive is to learn to delegate. You simply can’t do it all. That applies to all of us — we need to learn to delegate and/or weed out those things that we just don’t have time for. If there aren’t other ways to delegate tasks (to family members, volunteers, hired assistants (perhaps part-time, etc.), we can exploit the features of our software to the fullest.

I’m a legal secretary. During the day, my time and priorities are defined by other people, but I still have to manage things — their calendars, their travel arrangements, their lunches and dinners, etc. I make use of whatever services I can to delegate some of these tasks when necessary. I’m also able to do a little delegating in my private life. For instance, I hired a housekeeper, even though I can barely afford it, because housekeeping isn’t a good use of my time, especially since I’m partly disabled and it takes me forever. Second, I’ve set up multiple rules in Outlook to sort incoming email into folders so that what remains in my in box tends to be the most important stuff. This is also delegating.

Chris Austria Says:

February 25th, 2008, 13:40 pm

The best question in this interview is about Covey’s morning routine. Covey is Covey because he gives himself time to enrich his spiritual as well as physical being.
How many of us really do this? Most of us get up in the morning and get ready for work without even doing a self check if we are in a peaceful state of mind. Before we face the world day in and day out, we must prep our self first so that we can be ready for the daily challenges that awaits us.
A star athelet warms up before he or she takes the court. Why can’t a mom, a dad, a student, a bus driver do this?

Atomic Bombshell Says:

February 25th, 2008, 13:54 pm

Congrats on the interview. It was very interesting learning a little more about Mr. Covey’s daily and spiritual life.

Tannage Says:

February 25th, 2008, 14:15 pm

Chris makes a really good point. Most of us brush our teeth in the morning but we usually don’t do some sort of maintenance job for our mind, or for our body for that fact. Wake up, shower, go - and maybe breakfast if we’re lucky.
We could all learn from Covey’s example and make some time to balance ourselves at the start of the day.

I particularly liked his point of having a private victory of some description every day. If you keep doing that you will eventually condition positivity into the brain. If my life is anything to go by, it’s quite the opposite! I seem to be conditioning stress in by every day by the time I hit the office!

As for his comments on GTD, I can see why he calls it “simplistic”, as he has a team of people to help him with the sorts of things that GTD is designed to do. Good for him I say, but us mere mortals will have to keep up with the GTD to stay on top of things!

Rachel Says:

February 25th, 2008, 14:33 pm

I guess you have to get past taking care of children, feeding them and making sure they stay out of trouble before you have time to be “enlightened” and highly effective. Someone has to do the little things and I guess I am the “team” to my family. Maybe they can be effective.

Simon Says:

February 25th, 2008, 16:03 pm

@Harmonix: Many thanks for your post. I appreciate the insight you provided. Very valid points. Perhaps this just highlights nothing more than how dangerous the written word can sometimes be? At times it can be imprecise and open to misinterpretation (mea culpa perhaps?). A good lesson there. If I have a choice today to write a quick email or make a quick call, I think I’ll do the latter.

Simon

Andrew Flusche Says:

February 25th, 2008, 16:26 pm

Great interview, Leo. And thanks for the shout out!

Matt Says:

February 25th, 2008, 16:51 pm

To sum up this interview in one sentence, “Get rich and hire people to prioritize your life.”

I can’t wait until I’m rich, so I can really get stuff done!

Duff Says:

February 25th, 2008, 17:11 pm

Excellent interview with a great man. 7 Habits was the first personal development book I read, and it’s still hard to beat.

I do find GTD more useful generally as a practical system than Covey’s, but Covey is in many ways more important due to his focus on importance over urgency.

DS Says:

February 25th, 2008, 17:21 pm

Rachel: “Someone has to do the little things and I guess I am the “team” to my family”.

You rock.

Janice C. Cartier Says:

February 25th, 2008, 20:40 pm

Interesting how many people latched on to the staff/team issue. In searching for our highest best use of time, delegating becomes more important to effectiveness. Everyone does it. Seriously, are you getting up every morning and baking your family’s daily bread? Maybe a few of you are, but chances are there’s a loaf of somebody else’s work resting in your bread box. Going to the well for fresh spring water to use for the day’s laundry, cooking, drinking? Or are you having staff pipe it in for you?
Let me tell you, when I met noted sculptor, Linda Goodacre’s staff in Santa Fe, I was drooling. One of her assistant’s jobs included making sure there was food in the fridge….it must kind of be like having a wife.., supplies there, correspondence done, galleries kept straight.. gee just imagine how much more actual art she can produce.
So why the stir about his team? It’s a matter of scale.

I like his private victory moments beginning the day. There’s an insight. Interesting post, Leo. Kudos on the interview. I think we all use hybrid’s of one system or another anyway.

Greg Says:

February 25th, 2008, 21:08 pm

I think the key message of most commenters is that if you have a team of personal assistants helping you stay on top of your game - that you are probably not the best role model to give advice on true personal productivity.

http://www.ruthlessproductivity.com

Avrum Nadigel Says:

February 25th, 2008, 22:47 pm

“you are probably not the best role model to give advice on true personal productivity”

The fact that many of us spend time on productivity blogs, recycling the same information ad nauseam, is akin to the “blind leading the blind”, no?

I think Covey’s work (and success) speaks for itself vis-a-vis timeless wisdom and effective “personal productivity” techniques.

Mej Says:

February 26th, 2008, 0:41 am

I’m a huge fan of Stephen Covey and Zen Habits. Combining both is a dream. I have a fashion blog/site and yet I’m hooked on zenhabits. It’s a daily must-read.

Congratulations on your new e-book Leo! More power and more posts!

Mej Says:

February 26th, 2008, 0:42 am

I’m a huge fan of Stephen Covey and Zen Habits. Combining both is a dream. I have a fashion blog/site and yet I’m hooked on zenhabits. It’s a daily must-read.

Congratulations on your new e-book Leo! More power and more posts!

Mej http://fashiolution.com

Jonathan Mead Says:

February 26th, 2008, 1:23 am

I really enjoyed this article. It’s nice to see a peak of what popular personal development writers lives are like. =)

http://jonathanmead.com - Authenticity, Clarity, Balance

Michael Vu Says:

February 26th, 2008, 4:13 am

great post Leo!

Georgio Says:

February 26th, 2008, 4:15 am

Leo you are missing my point - you’re work is FAR FAR more effective at helping people be more productive than Covey. Your stuff works. He got lucky selling a lot of books because of the catchey title. Its actually NOT the 7 habits of H.E.P - its not evidenvce based, he didn’t interview 250 H.E.P and distill 7 key habits. Like 99% of self-help books the 7 HOHEP is just 1 guy’s opinion. But YOUR stuff is the real deal and would generate massive results for people. He’s old more books because of better marketing. But your momentum is growing Leo. I’ve studied his stuff and its too high-level. Your work helps sort the key things, simplify, focus, and ZTD + MIT to get the most out of our life/day.

Ani Says:

February 26th, 2008, 4:54 am

I joined the Covey Community few weeks ago. It thinks the videos are very inspirational and the other resources are also very well done and helpful. My enthusiasm and participation could be improved if and when I am informed how much the service will cost after the beta period.

Lodewijk van den Broek Says:

February 26th, 2008, 5:30 am

Congrats on the interview Leo :)

I liked the insight to his morning routine. It’s great to see that he combines his first three habits (the private victory) with no. 7 Sharpen the saw. That’s a productive way to do it :) And a great way to start the day, I’m sure.

I found the answer to the first question somewhat disappointing though. I hoped that he would give a more actionable answer. I think for a lot of people listening to their conscience is a) hard enough as it is and b) it says something else everytime.

I love the comment thread here too. Too bad I jump in so late. The many references to the team stood out for me too, and left me with mixed feelings. But when I factor in that he in fact is 75 years old, well he’s still going pretty strong.

K Stone Says:

February 26th, 2008, 10:02 am

I think that what Covey has brought to the world in his writing is very useful in people’s lives. I think the stage that he’s at now with all his success and his team, just simply makes room for the next generation of up and coming hungry writers.

As a few people mentioned above, there is good reason that Covey has a team these days. The downside to success and having a team would seem to be that it can insulate you and you might lose touch with the world to a certain degree. I know that his team brings the world to him, but it is a filtered version. Although I’m sure he has his “filters” set up quite precisely.

So conversely the advantage to the rest of us who are struggling on our own without a team, like Mara and others above, is that we feel where the rubber hits the road and thus if you are in the business of writing to help others, you have a grittier perspective of the struggles of your audience. And perhaps that perspective gives you the real life urgent motivation to find solutions that you can then share with others in your writing.

I know not everyone here is a writer. But I bet a lot are, like myself. It’s fun to join the conversation.

Great interview Leo and Stephen. Thank you for sharing. I found it enlightening and helpful too. I like the idea of the Private Victory and finding some way to incorporate that in my life.

blogrdoc Says:

February 26th, 2008, 11:33 am

7Habits is Fundamentals.

When you go through 7Habits, there is little left to the reader to “pick-and-choose” from. Either your take it or you leave it. The principles he lays out are unchangeable (Time matrix, productivity capability, win-win, sharpen the saw, etc…). “You cannot break these laws, you can only break yourself against them”, as Covey reminds us.

GTD is techniques.

There are a couple immutable principles that Allen uncovers (brain is limited in ability to deal with complexity, so write things down, next actions). But for the most part, when you read Getting Things Done, *much* is left to the reader to decide what works for them.

The most important thing I suspect *most* people will get from GTD is the concept of ‘next actions’. The ‘next actions’ concept is simply: do not procrastinate the *decision* of *what* do to; define the next action.

However, once the next action is decided, there is a huge pitfall to avoid - which is do not procrastinate the *next action*.

Though I enjoyed reading GTD, there were certain things that I just didn’t agree with at all. E.g. I found the perspective-control matrix awkward and highly ‘derivative’ of time matrix (which is more useful, IMHO).

Proseac Says:

February 26th, 2008, 14:01 pm

I’ve enjoyed reading the comments just as much as the actual interview! Lots of insightful opinions, and interesting perspectives.

I would love to apply something similar to Covey’s “winning the private victory”, but at the pace I move in the morning I’d probably have to get up about 4 am to do it! LOL

I’ll agree that with his schedule, Covey does in fact need a team; but I’ll also agree that there is a danger of losing touch with the reality that we “ordinary folk” face on a daily basis.

This is why I love ZTD and GTD - for me they are more practical. When I read The 7 Habits, I got bogged down in the mission statement piece, which seemed just too complicated for someone who still, at 42 years of age, isn’t sure what I’m supposed to be when I grow up.

oakling Says:

February 26th, 2008, 23:15 pm

Nice celebterview! Congratulations :)

JEMi @ InMyHeels - Tips for Life, Love, You. Says:

February 27th, 2008, 1:03 am

Personally, I’ve never read Covey’s book but I sure would like to now. I found the comments/reactions interesting and honestly what I expected

I rather enjoyed the interview - I did bear in mind that he was a successful man with elements in his life that are different from mine.

I personally liked the Personal Victory idea. His way of doing it is different from how I would ( I don’t see myself reading scriptures.. at least not at this point in my life) however a time dedicated to self reflection and spirit? I think that would improve my life

So much so I think I may have to inc. that.

That being said, the simple things (I understood what he meants by simplistic and superficial so it didn’t bug me) in life are the ones most of us struggle to deal with. I think for us to even *touch* the deep stuff, there are matters that we need to find balance with.

Clay at The Growing Life (www.thegrowinglife.com) has written Mind Like Water and I think that is a great starting point for people seeking balance in their lives.

I will read Covey’s book to see more of what he has to say

This was an interesting read Leo. Thank you for it.

Tori Says:

February 27th, 2008, 5:12 am

I am a fan of the site, but I feel like I need to give some honest feedback about this one. Does anyone else feel that his responses were primarily about how he just has people do things for him? I didn’t take much away from this article except that this guy is wealthy. I much prefer Leo’s articles as he is more of a “real” person going through normal struggles without tons of staff helping out with “less important tasks” like email. Lame.

Ivan Says:

February 27th, 2008, 11:27 am

I think many people here are missing the point of following systems like GTD. The whole reason I read the book and apply many of its principles is so I can take care of the “smaller” things and have more time for the more “important” things. I see GTD as my equivalent for Covey’s “team”.

jeannie Says:

February 27th, 2008, 12:10 pm

I really like Covey’s basic messages, although I am decidedly non-religious. But “I don’t read blogs” as a personal declaration??? Really? Ok then, you are out of my universe. That’s just absurd.

Lynn Says:

February 27th, 2008, 15:05 pm

Hello Leo, thank you for the interview. I think you and your blog buddies did a good job asking original questions.

My favorite comment from Mr. Covey was, “Listen to your conscience regarding something that you simply know you should do, then start small on it—make a promise and keep it.” That reminds me so much of my yoga practice - focus on this moment and what we have to do in this moment. How often do we let distractions take us away from what we should be doing?

Christoph Dollis Says:

February 27th, 2008, 15:35 pm

The Secret is terrible. How you could put this cult book and Getting Things Done, a useful manual of practical ideas (which some people turn into a cult, but that’s their problem: It isn’t. It’s about inboxes and file folders) in the same sentence is beyond me.

Otherwise, I love your site and just added your Facebook widget to my account… the only widget I have, I think. Don’t quote me on that.

Melissa Says:

February 27th, 2008, 17:06 pm

All I got from this interview is that the dude has to have “his people” decide on everything. Too bad I don’t have “people” to make my decisions.

Christoph Dollis Says:

February 27th, 2008, 17:10 pm

Then you may want to read it again, Melissa, because the first, second, and sixth answer don’t talk about the people who support his work.

Kathy Says:

February 27th, 2008, 20:57 pm

I find it hard to imagine how Stephen Covey could possibly function without a team! It’s nice that he acknowledges that. We are all in different situations in life. We can only do so much. Sometimes my problem is thinking I should be able to do everything. I think of all these things I want to accomplish and then get discouraged when I don’t. I really like his idea of making promises to ourself. I take my promises to others seriously. Why shouldn’t I promise things to myself? I am quite sure I would make my expectations more realistic than I do now because I wouldn’t want to break my promise. Starting the day coming up with something important that I promise myself I will do that day and gradually making those things a little bit harder seems like a good plan. It seems doable and not overwhelming. Thanks for sharing this!

blogrdoc Says:

February 27th, 2008, 21:10 pm

I see that people are getting hung up on him talking about his team, which is fair. However, do realize that his principles are actually very self empowering. Covey has “a team” because he is an incredible *LEADER*. GTD and other bottom’s up approaches *are* effective in getting your head above water, and once you’ve done that - you’ve proven to others and yourself that you can manage yourself - which is an uncommon skill. The next natural step is to lead others. Why? The truth is that leadership is *scarce*. That is where Covey’s principles really come into play… LEADERSHIP. See my blog on ‘the fine print on leadership.’

Abey Says:

February 28th, 2008, 7:03 am

Covey’s habit formula was there in Lord Buddha’s advice, eons ago. But when Covey said it in English more people comprehended it. There are more formulas for budding writers in Buddhist literature. This interview too, is very useful to me. Keep up good work Leo. Thanks.

Chuck Says:

February 28th, 2008, 14:11 pm

What struck me the most was how different the wildly successful have it.

Mr. Covey gets up in the morning, goes to his home gym and rides a bike, then swims in his home pool where he takes time to meditate.

I get up at 5:30, shower and eat a Pop-Tart, rush out at 6:00 to catch the train at 6:30, then ride the train for an hour to my job. 8 hours of work, then back home by 6:00 p.m. to make dinner, do housework, and help my kids with homework. If I’m lucky I get 9:00 to 10:00 for myself, though I usually spend that time with my wife instead.

It’s great to “take time for a private victory” if you have the time to look for one. But many of us don’t. And believe me, I’ve looked.

Christoph Dollis Says:

February 29th, 2008, 4:49 am

Chuck, your comment was, generally, one of the most inadvertently missing the point comments I’ve ever seen. Thanks for it. You’ve clarified my thinking about just how right Covey’s main principles are.

While generally disastrous, by far the worst part of your comment was this:

“lucky”

As in, “If I’m lucky I get…”

“It’s great to “take time for a private victory” if you have the time to look for one. But many of us don’t. And believe me, I’ve looked.”

Harrumph and to-you directed mocking intended: You can’t “find” half an hour in the morning to win your private victory?

One hint: Replace the pop-tart with something quick and healthy, yeah even a tin of salmon or a a piece of fruit or perhaps some leftover vegetarian or meat chili made once a week - you get the idea - and you’ll have more energy from not eating so crappy.

Use it to get up 20 minutes earlier and do some exercise. Here’s your private victory.

Better yet, get up 45 minutes to an hour early and add some reading on attitude and specialized knowledge each day.

Can’t find the time? Give up blog commenting. Covey isn’t “lucky” enough to find time for that; instead, he’s made himself millions and built up a team of people to support him in his work.

What a lucky guy!

P.S. Dale Carnegie would shoot me for the above comment, and he’d be right. Sometimes, however, you gots to put things in blunt terms.

Chuck, you CAN do it, whatever “it” is… and you *WON’T* do it until you stop thinking that people with more time for important things are luckier than you are!

Yes, they do have more time, you’re right… but luck had little to do with it.

Christoph Dollis Says:

February 29th, 2008, 4:53 am

Actually, Chuck, even if you’re justifiably peeved at me for leaving the above comment, privately for your own sake, please watch this:

Randy Pausch, professor at Carnegie Melon, dying of cancer, gives 76 min. 22 second talk on time management and how people with families and children become much more efficient and get more done. Randy ALSO gives great credit to Stephen Covey for his work.

This is recommended viewing for every single person who took the time to read this thread, including Leo.

Rob Says:

February 29th, 2008, 6:19 am

Being in the right place at the right time is a moment many have experienced but for Covey he was one of the few that gained by, many years ago, entering the then emerging, self improvement market.

The guy has obviously made a lot of money and can afford to live up to the high horse morality he preaches. Can’t help thinking that photo of him smiling looks false.

Covey is a human being and by definition he’ll have flaws like the rest of us. We’re all different and you should cherry pick his ideas that suit you.

Renato Says:

February 29th, 2008, 13:00 pm

This inteview was very disapointing. I find more truth in Leo’s words than this pompous b… Oh, and that crap about vigorously swimming in his “home pool” and the excercising to the scriptures was just too much. I bet his team put togehter “his” books too. I find him an overmarketed product.

Renato Says:

February 29th, 2008, 13:03 pm

Oh, and something else, Leo. Even if he was an inspiration to you, in my humble opinion, you have surpassed him greatly. I get the impression that you are real, whereas he comes across way too fabricated.

99ppp Says:

February 29th, 2008, 15:09 pm

Covey suggests listening to one’s conscience, which is fine but apart from that its simply:

take initiative, set goals, prioritize, look for mutual gain, listen, teamwork, and train the previous six things.

When I bought it, I’d thought it’d make a nice pamphlet instead.

that’s it.

I noticed he dodged the question asking if he had any books he’d recommend besides his.

99ppp Says:

February 29th, 2008, 15:13 pm

@Renato: Indeed.. while I poke some fun at productivity blogs in my own, I find Leo comes from a genuine place.

Covey is an industry.

Christoph Dollis Says:

February 29th, 2008, 21:38 pm

“Being in the right place at the right time is a moment many have experienced but for Covey he was one of the few that gained by, many years ago, entering the then emerging, self improvement market.”

Yeah, I’m sure it was complete and utter chance. The book wrote itself. The ideas are useless. Leo says Covey was one of his influences because Leo’s obviously a lying bastard.

“Covey is a human being and by definition he’ll have flaws like the rest of us.”

I’m sure he’s never claimed otherwise.

“We’re all different and you should cherry pick his ideas that suit you.”

Finally some truth and common sense. Pretty much what Leo said, just put with more counterproductive venom.

“Oh, and that crap about vigorously swimming in his “home pool” and the excercising to the scriptures was just too much.”

A 76-year old man doing vigorous swimming? The cad! Mormon reading the scriptures of his religion? Why, what a jerk — and actually answering the question honestly when asked by Leo? This PROVES Stephen Covey is a jackass, unlike you.

“I bet his team put togehter “his” books too.”

Sure. Because groups of talented strangers always spontaneously pool their writing talents and turn them into nationally published books, credited to someone else, “just because”.

/end sarcasm

I don’t agree with everything Covey does… I’m a bit of a critic on his emphasis on prioritizing versus simply capturing, listing, and deciding what’s a priority in real time as things shift and change in your day-to-day work… I think for many people Covey’s approach leads to paralysis of analysis where Allen’s leads to a freer mind and reduced stress by being organized, which in turn makes it easier to work on progressively larger projects… yet each teach things the other could agree with and they have much in common.

Some people I respect like Randy Pausch (link above) swear by Covey’s time management matrix as being a crucial life skill. Very very simple — could be explained in a pamphlet, as someone stated (just like I started GTD based on nothing more than a quick reference card and a podcast), but simple isn’t a problem. It’s a good thing.

And writers of books will give many examples to go along with their ideas, so various different kinds of people get it.

Well, I’ll listen to a winner like Stephen Covey and thank him for his time here. I don’t have to agree with every single word the man wrote to acknowledge two things:

1. Thus far, he’s accomplished more, so could simply be right outright
2. It doesn’t do any harm to treat him with respect and courtesy “just because”

Stephen Says:

March 1st, 2008, 1:12 am

Forgive me if someone already said this (there were a lot of posts) but what you guys call disconnected from reality actually sounds pretty zen. For a blog called zen habits, you’d think the readers would be interested in a guy tha