Editor’s note: This is a guest post from Alex Blackwell, who writes about creating success and happiness for the rest of your life at The Next 45 Years.
Final exams at Kansas University are only a few weeks away. My daughter, Caitlin, has been working very hard and will successfully complete her freshmen year in very good academic standing. Caitlin has learned a lot about being on her own and other important life skills, too.
However, she has already informed her mother and me her car will be packed and she will be ready to pull out of Lawrence, Kansas and head back home as soon as she completes her last exam.
While Mary Beth and I are looking forward to spending the summer with our daughter, we just hope her return to the nest will be equally successful.
In anticipation of her return home, my wife and I have been discussing how to embrace this change to our routine. We want the next few months to be happy and productive ones for the sake of the entire family. We have settled on these five ways to cope when our daughter comes home, again. I hope you will find these useful too:
1. Establish Some Ground Rules. The first place to start is with establishing, and communicating, the house rules have not gone away, even though Caitlin has been away from the house for the past 10 months. Things like curfew times, noise levels, keeping up with assigned household chores and friends coming over will all be redefined and enforced.
Being part of a family is a privilege. The ability to enjoy a comfortable home, food in the fridge, cable television and a computer with a fast Internet connection all come with responsibilities. The most fundamental of these responsibilities is to be accountable and to follow the family-approved rules. No one is exempt for these and there are no exceptions.
2. Set Boundaries. I have resigned myself to the fact that the peace and quiet Mary Beth and have enjoyed since last August will be interrupted over the summer months. This is not an indictment or criticism about Caitlin’s behavior; it’s just being honest to say our house has a lot more energy in it when our daughter is here.
With that said, my wife and I still have a right to privacy and to our personal space. It’s important for all of us to have some personal space to retreat to when the need arises.
3. Caitlin’s Contributions. In addition to respecting the house rules, there is also an expectation our daughter will contribute to the family in other ways, too. Helping with dinner, getting Emily, our younger daughter, to and from where she needs to go, and pitching in with the laundry will all be expected contributions.
When children return home, they should not be considered as invited guests, but as fully engaged and productive members of the family. Their contributions, however, are not limited to how they can help their parents; their presence, spirit and love are all valuable contributions as well.
4. Cultivate an Adult Relationship. It’s very fulfilling watching our children grow up and grow in to becoming mature and responsible adults. An expectation Catlin may have this summer is to be treated as an adult – I can’t wait to meet her expectation.
We invest some much time and effort in our children when they are young. This investment yields very, very favorable returns when we get to experience them as adults.
The years of reading bedtime stories and believing in Santa Claus are indeed magical. The time spent talking about who should win the next presidential election over a cold beer can be just as delightful. Gradually, and without much notice, our children become our friends.
I’m looking forward to finding out more about the reasons behind Caitlin’s choice for president. I’m looking forward to nurturing an adult relationship with my daughter this summer.
5. Create an Exit Strategy. As the August days begin to get shorter, so will our time with Caitlin. With every homecoming, there is also a farewell.
When my daughter pulls up into the driveway in a couple of weeks, no one will be thinking about the day she will need to back out and head for Lawrence. It will be important to drop-in reminders of the inevitable departure along the way.
Within a few days of her return home, we will quickly develop a new routine and grow accustomed to her new-found presence in the house. We will also need to help transition her back to her college life.
Shopping for new items for her apartment, gradually giving her more autonomy as the summer wanes into the fall, and planning the Thanksgiving holiday details when we will unite as a family again, are all things we can do to help with the transition from the nest and back into her independence.
Thomas Wolfe may suggest “you can’t go home again,” but you can welcome your child home again and begin building a new relationship that can be sustained for the rest of your lives together.
Read more from Alex Blackwell at his blog, The Next 45 Years.
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154 brilliant comments
Love the idea of creating an adult relationship. By using some sort of ritual or ceremony it could mark the transition into this relationship. Good ideas.
“Being part of a family is a privilege.”
I disagree. Being part of a family is not a privilege, it’s a basic human right, as important as any other.
I am really enjoying my oldest son when he comes home from college. We aren’t arguing any more. I am really having a wonderful time speaking to him as an adult. I’ve asked his thoughts on things going on in my life and he has been very understanding and a great source of support. I also told him to cook for himself! :O)
Even though my daughters are only 6 and 8, I sometimes worry about the inevitable empty nest. It’s encouraging to see the positive aspects of having grownup kids.
As a college-age child myself, I’d like to put in my two cents, here.
Remember that, although it is your house and your rules, it’s good to reconsider what rules you now think are appropriate, as opposed to what was in place when your child left.
Having been off at college with no curfew, for example, I had been accustomed to coming and going whenever I felt like it. I’m a very good kid - I don’t drink, do drugs, break laws, or anything like that - so my parents figured out that they could trust me to keep taking care of myself in some respects I had become accustomed to.
I know some of my friends were very frustrated when they arrived home to “surprises” like a midnight curfew - you realize midnight is barely even the *night time* to a lot of colege students? - or their parents charging them rent (which is neither good nor bad, but not something to spring on your kid!), etc.
This article is actually kind of disgusting. The author clearly treats his child more like an employee than a loved one. Being part of a family is NOT a privilege. Unlike the author, my family supports me 100%, and doesn’t make it seem like I have to earn their support. Honestly, this is just wrong. This post should be removed. Shame on you, Alex.
You are a little hypocritical in your idea of cultivating an adult relationship and yet returning your daughter to a highschool state of curfews and rules. There is a point where a young adult is building more in their personal life than in their family relationships - I’m sure your daughter spent the first eighteen years of her life contributing to the family. One year on her own has probably not given her enough to time to come skipping home with this as her top priority. I think giving young adults space whiles still reminding them they have your support when they need it is a much better option than laying down rules which will inevitably be broken. I’m sure she is pretty hesitant about returning for the opposite reasons as you are hesitant about her return. If you want her to help around the house maybe you need to compromise the curfew etc. Not enough give and take in your outline!
#2 is an important point. Once our children grow, they should respect the house rules and should treat the relationship with their parents in proper perspective for their healthy growth. By allowing exceptions, we send them signal that they can get away without being responsible person.
Great post.
Shilpan
Perhaps a more appropriate entrance to this adult child returning would be to include her in your conversations with your wife and the three of you could iron out how it might best work for all. I have two adult children who swing by now and then. A big part of acknowledging their adulthood is to be willing to ask their advice and opinions!
Hmm, if my parents wrote something like this, I’d do anything I could so that I would never ever have to “impose” on them again. Luckily I have parents who would not starting planning my exit from their home before I’d even arrived. She has my sympathy.
Whoa there…
“Being part of a family is a privilege.”
Hmmm… I haven’t heard something that sounded so cult like in years.
And planning your kids exit before they are even there? Your family must be very tense. You plan too much, just relax - its your daughters homecoming. (Planning activities is one thing, but….)
Personally, I am surprised your daughter would even come back to you guys with such a controlling environment. Don’t you realize you are programming your daughter to depend on a controlling source? She is going to end up marrying some abusive gangbanger.
This is the saddest articles I’ve ever read at Zen habits. Especially when I compare this guest posting to what Leo continues to post about his family life here.
“Establish Ground Rules”, “Boundaries”, “Expectations”, “Contribution”, “Exit Strategy”. What a detached, business-like attitude towards family life.
Anyway, good luck with item #4, “cultivate an adult relationship” - at least you didn’t call that “CRM” (Child Relationship Management).
Your point on setting boundaries only applies if your daughter’s actions are negatively interfering with your normal routines, right? Otherwise, it’s a bit harsh…
This is a very beautiful post! I love the idea of interacting with your parents/children as adults. It’s something I’ve only recently realized (being 22) and definitely needs to be considered.
I too take issue with the statement “Being part of a family is a privilege.” I must ask the author - you decided to have your daughter (something she had no say in) so how could you possibly bring her into the world, and then turn around and state that it’s a privilege for her to be part of the family?
I like the part about cultivating an adult relationship. We can’t always treat our children like children once they have become adults. They need to be treated like adults and that includes all of the responsibilities they need to live up to.
That includes finances, cleaning and everything
I don’t have any children but some day soon I will hope to have some and I can build this bond too. How exciting.
>>“Being part of a family is a privilege.”
>I disagree. Being part of a family is not a privilege, it’s a >basic human right, as important as any other.
I think what the author was saying is not that it’s a privilege in the sense of an extra treat or gift; but that it is a good thing and deserves respect.
Another example of this use would be “Isn’t it such a privilege to be alive on this beautiful Earth?”
This use of the word also points out that it is a privilege granted by the parents, however basic and justified it may seem. There are plenty of parents out there who would not or cannot support their children living with them, or going on to higher education at all.
Teenagers sometimes need to be reminded that they are not the only person living in that house :)
One must wonder: If the author, instead of having his child legally declared incompetent, sent her away to college, did he do her a grave disservice then, or is he about to do so now?
Speaking as a father, stepfather, and grandfather, I must say that there is an important distinction between adult offspring and child, and an even more important distinction between having a right and being right. I would remind the author of his article of March 27 and suggest that he did not “lose [his] daughter when she was a child”, he drove her away. He would be a fool to do so again.
As would anyone who takes his advice expressed here be a fool for doing so.
I’m not sure how I feel about all of this. Some good points, some not so solid.
I hope it works out. And if she doesn’t vote for Obama send her back to college! LOL
;)
The Daily Minder
Developing a mature relationship with your child is extremely important. Part of that key is developing trust as equals, so to speak; you will always be the parent and therefore will garner special respect in their mind, whether it is openly acknowledged or not. With trust and maturity, you can get a much better idea of where they are and where they are heading and, much more importantly, have a much more impactful voice in helping them sidestep the otherwise inevitable pitfalls of the maturation process, remembering that they’re still only in their 20s (no matter how old they feel).
The idea that being part of a family as a “privilege” in any sense of that word is a direct contradiction to that very relationship. Making your child part of a family is your responsibility as a parent, it was the contract you signed upon conception/birth. Whether it is commonly fulfilled is another debate.
As a part of the maturity inherent to the new relationship is an expectation of increase maturity from the child with regards to the parents and rules of the house, without a doubt. But for this to work successfully, and I have seen it done, both sides need to approach it with respect and consideration … just as with any successful adult relationship.
I’m very glad I came to look at the comments here. It’s great to see both sides. Old people all saying, “Heaven yes, a wee child of 18 needs boundaries!” and the younguns’ all up in arms: “If I was your kid, I’d sleep in a box before I came home!”
It’s pretty hilarious.
I wonder what Mr. Blackwell would have said if his Dad had told him at 18 that being part of his family was a privilege.
This post was very sad. How tender must your home life be, that such a short deviation requires such anxious meddling! Once your daughters actually gain that adult experience they’re clearly not able to receive at home, I hope they lead a better example for their kids.
Zen Habits,..reduce the clutter:
#1->#3 although you lived as an adult for the last 9 months, you’re still our kid, our house our rules!
#4 oh good! you’re blossoming into an adult.
#5 sooner or later all good things come to an end, cope.
Question on #1->#3 if you were temporarily housing anyone else, a boarder, a nephew, a son/daughter of a past army/college buddy, would you still go to such great lengths to assert “boundaries” and “control” ?
better advice from someone is still dealing with such levels of control from afar in her thirties…
You could just enjoy the summer (one of the last chances you will likely have to have her living with you) with your daughter, and respect the fact that she has become used to far more independence. Sure, don’t allow her to take liberties, but as I read it, this post basically says ‘I’m going to treat my daughter like a child, whilst simultaneously expecting her to relate to me as an adult.
If my parents had come out with this when I left home, and had I found out about it, I would have pretty quickly find an alternative place to stay for the summer. Oh wait. I did.
Any chance Caitlin is going to see this post, by any chance? I’d be really interested in hearing what her reaction to this is.
“Caitlin has learned a lot about being on her own and other important life skills, too.”
Then she doesn’t need to be patronised. If you want her to do the laundry on some idle Tuesday ask her nicely to. If she has matured she won’t put up much of a fight about it.
Re-establishing boundaries? Ground rules?
She’s, what, 18/19/20-years-old, right?
I’m not a parent: I’m a freshman who is to return home soon, just like Caitlin.
She and I will always be children in our parents’ eyes. I get it.
But if I were her, and my father had posted an article like this online, I’d be fairly offended.
I will be in college next year, and my parents have already given me a lecture just like this. They didn’t say that being in a family is a privilege, but they think living with them is, and unless I do my fair share of work and chores (a lot to them…) during the summer, and probably pay rent, then I won’t be allowed to do anything. I feel bad for Caitlin, who will be going through the same ordeal.
I think you got the title wrong. The post should be called “The five things NOT to do when your child all of a sudden became a grown-up”.
This list is a joke, right?
I went thru a similar “adjustment” the first summer I came home from college. It was the last time I did.
After the experience of setting my own schedule and having the freedom of the “comings-and-goings” of my pals and ladyfriends, it was stifling and humiliating to be back with my parents.
Best of luck to Caitlin, perhaps she will decide to get a job in Lawrence next summer, and stay on campus. That’s what I did.
All I see is the author’s anxiety toward her daughter’s return from college. Relax! She has probably leaned “how” to live with her parents already.
I have to laugh at college kids who think they are in any way “out on their own” when in fact Mom and Dad are footing the bill for tuition, room and board, car and insurance, and spending money. What a joke.
Maybe if more kids got out when they turned eighteen (as I did) and were entirely self-supporting from then on (as I was), they’d be less critical of a guy like this dad who so graciously wants to welcome his daughter back home.
That’s the problem with many children nowadays. They feel entitled; they’re spoiled and ungrateful, and it shows. For shame.
Letting your kids know that you love them isn’t supposed to change with age. What can change is the mutual understanding of respect. I like ideas I learned about older children from inspirational author, Wayne Dyer. Rather than set rules for older children to follow, he recommends reinforcing love and trust. Tell your teens you trust their judgment. Tell your young adults to come home at ‘a reasonable time’ rather than give them a curfew. Encourage them to help around the house without making a list of demands. Compel initiative and praise effort. Praise evokes self-confidence and self-acceptance, as well as more good reasons to give more praise. In situations where your expectations as a parent aren’t being met, different communication may be necessary. Yet, in general, when you praise, this makes people want to do more similar things to get more positive reinforcement.
I find it interesting that your first three bullet points are all about rules — or more accurately, restrictions — that your daughter will be expected to abide by. You set these guidelines for her behavior, yet you set no such rules for your own. Rules such as respecting her privacy and her space. You’ll be requiring her to keep her noise down at night when you and your wife are asleep, but will you keep your own noise down in the morning when your daughter will likely still be in bed? Is she going to be your younger daughter’s new chauffeur?
If she comes home and you immediately return to treating her like a subordinate, she’ll never spend another summer at home again. All three of you are adults now. Treat her like one, and (hopefully) she’ll afford you the same courtesy.
Yikes. Good luck with your summer, Caitlin!
Excellent article. I think above rules don’t only apply to “a daughter” coming home, but also to related scenarios like other family members visiting.
As I live on the Canaries, we get a lot of family visitors and they mostly stay for 2 or even 3 weeks, … Yes, that requires rules and some “law” enforcement.
Have a nice weekend.
Stop! No families are smiles all the time, but there is a lot of love in this one. They will work out fine. I wish them the best time.
Cultivating an adult relationship sounds great. Unfortunately, you have already denied your daughter that chance. She may have opinions on a few of your conditions for welcoming her back home.
I also wonder if you explicitly enumerate the conditions of your other adult relationships. If so, I would expect those relationships to be pretty unfulfilling.
I don’t have kids, but I was one, once. As such, I recommend number 4 from personal experience. I loved my parents when they were mostly parents, but now that they’re parents AND friends, I cherish them. Might I suggest cultivating that relationship over a nice cup of tea and a slice of home made bread?
I have to agree with other readers who said this was a very sad post. Treating your relationship with your children like a business operation seems just plain wrong.
Also, I suspect that some of the ideas expressed by the author may well be linked to some segments of the US culture. This is by no means a generalisation: certainly everybody is different, and there must be millions of people in the US who do not share the author’s views (the many comments already posted here criticising the article are further proof of this). I’m just trying to point out that for many other cultures in the world it would be offensive, even unthinkable to say something like “Being part of a family is a privilege”. In many parts of the world, things don’t work in the same way described by the author; children live longer with their families, even when they are already in college (not everybody needs to move to another city or state for that), sometimes even until they get married. And asking/expecting your child to pay rent when he or she is visiting is a very strange idea, to say the least.
I also got the general impression that, in some way, the author sees the visit of his daughter as something inconvenient, which will disturb his routine and his peace - so he has to be well-prepared in advance, planning all the details and setting rules to limit and control the nuisance.
Sorry if my comments seem harsh - I mean no offence, and I respect the author’s and everybody else’s point of view, but as someone with a family background that is probably very different from what the author describes, I found this article very sad indeed.
where’s Leo?
I think you’re right, SL. Here is a family member who hasn’t yet fully established her independence, but is getting there, and needs a place to stay for the summer. This list of rules does not sound in any way welcoming or helpful. The situation is not outlined as a “how can I help my daughter” gesture, but a “how can I protect my comfort zone at home” gesture, which just seems selfish to me.
I ask the author of this post — how will you feel when you are no longer able to support yourself — when your child takes on the role of the caregiver? Would you see her support in this situation as a “privilege” then, to be structured by rules and regulations, or a welcome act of grace and kindness?
Leo, I know you’re really busy, but please don’t insult your readers by inviting this guest blogger again. I’m really disappointed in you. Personally I think you should apologize for allowing this post.
Alex writes in a patronizing way about his adult daughter. He seems stuck in thinking he can order Caitlin - a legal adult - around. I’m glad she’s doing a college degree - hopefully it means she will be able to support herself soon and get away from her overbearing and self-centered father.
Alex - a curfew ? Are you serious? Perhaps you still think it’s the 1950s. If Caitlin has any gumption she will calmly and clearly tell you where you can stick her curfew. So what exactly are you going to do? Throw her out?
Do you ask her permission when you invite your friends round? I really hope you don’t treat your wife n a similar way.
The “time and effort” you “invest” into your children are your own choice and most people give this freely without any expectation of payback. Remember - you made a choice to have a child - nobody was forcing you to have one 18-20 years ago. You get what you’re given with children. Once they are an adult - you’re equals and you have no right whatsoever to tell her what to do.
You don’t “give” her autonomy, it is her right.
Caitlin - my sympathies and seriously, good luck. Not everyone’s parents are like this - you’ve just got a bad lot. Stand up for yourself and get your own back-up plan and you won’t have to put up with this for much longer. You’re an adult not a child any more, and your parents can’t control your behavior, your late nights (or indeed early mornings) or your sexuality for that matter. And your politics are your own choice too - and your choice as to whether you want to explain.
Shame on you Alex. You’re the one who needs to grow up.
You know, all of you naysayers must be either living with your parents or have been EXTREMELY lucky to have had a positive experience with your children. I, on the other hand, have an 18-year-old step-son who seems to not want to join real life. He got kicked out of his dad’s, was going from friend’s house to friend’s house until he wore out his welcome. He was homeless for a day, until the cops came and said either we take you to a homeless shelter or you figure things out. He called us, and as the loving parents we are, we took him in. He told us that he is going to turn things around by getting his GED and a job, etc. He has been home for over three months and eats, sleeps, and plays Second Life on the computer all night long. I think he has contributed to the family household by taking out the garbage a couple times. Yes, it IS a privilege, you people. At this age (18+), they should have been given the tools to integrate into society and succeed in their independence, which I know we have done. We have been positive, supportive, nurturing, but the fact is that this is the time in their lives that they need to make a life for themselves. As parents we will always have an open door policy and help out whenever, wherever we can, but we are trying not to allow him to think that he’s got it made and doesn’t have to do a darn thing, because ultimately, it is OUR (my wife’s and my) home, we pay the rent and bills. I will be going over this with my wife tonight, and we will no doubt implement almost all (if not all) the strategies in this post, since it will keep us from going insane. THANKS ALEX!!!
I see nothing wrong with expectations for your kids when they come home. As adults, we have responsibilites like laundry, dishes, grocery shopping, lawn work, household maintenance and the like. If ‘adult’ children want to come home, there is no reason to give them a free ride. Every adult has to do these things. If you are not doing them, you are not acting like an adult. Mom and Dad should not take up the extra work for having the adult child there at home.
I do take issue with treating someone like an invited guest and a productive family member at the same time. It seems contradictory.
I think he meant that being apart of a family is a privilege and should not be taken advantage of. Not that you can be kicked out at any given time.
Curfews, haha. This is most likely the worst article I’ve ever read here.
My daughter is nearly 18 and will be moving out for college. I hope I never feel the way this poster does about her returning home.
I agree that there are certain ground rules that should be set, mutually, at the front end, just so everyone is clear on what the expectations are. While I wouldn’t relegate my child to following the same rules as in high school, I would let her know she is expected to clean up after herself and treat all members of the family with respect. In return, I would give her that same respect: her privacy, freedom of movement and for her way of doing things. As it is, I do that now.
As far as the rest of the post, I would hope that talking to their daughter as an adult has already begun on calls home, and isn’t something that has to be worked at. And regardless of how the word “privilege” was meant, it did come across as cold and mean. I chose to have my child, any privilege is mine, not hers.
Stephanie, you make an excellent point about when this person is elderly and his daughter is responsible for his care. Will he consider that a right or privilege? How does the bumper sticker go, “be kind to your children, they will choose your nursing home?”
I wish the daughter the best of luck coming through summer unscathed. And I wonder if she will spend any further summers, or any time at all really, at home.
I think these are some great tips. My children are stil young, so I won’t have to concern myself about this for ahwile, but still I agree with all these suggestions. It sounds like some good advice to me.
Adult children need to be lovingly taught to stand on their own two feet. If they don’t take personal responsibility for their lives, then they will never prosper.
Way to go Alex!
I just read a great interview by Lin at Telling It Like It Is with the author of a book titled Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children: Six Steps to Hope and Healing. It would provide great reading for any one who is looking for more guidance in dealing with adult children.
To save typing and reading time I will say… ditto what Mary said.
I found myself thinking while reading the article….”sheesh I wish he had written this article AFTER the summer because in reality he doesn’t know what he is talking about yet.
Personally I think Alex is overthinking the whole situation and that his daughter will have a lovely summer visiting her family and friends.
One note to Alex directly though. Your daughter is “coming home for a VISIT” not “MOVING back home” There is a whole world of difference between those two things. Yes she needs to respect you and your house always. If you treat her like an adult, chances are that is what will happen. IF she does not, then is the time to sit down with her and discuss the return to “high school rules” Give her a chance to show you how she has grown in the last 10 months. I’ll bet you $50 she is not the same teenager that left last fall.
ps to the “youngsters” Posting “you awful parent you” comments…. your age is showing :) Take Alex’s post as food for thought and insight into some of the anxiety your parents may (or may not) be feeling. It doesn’t matter how old and independent you get, your parents will always want to look after you at some level. At this time in your life they are just as confused as you are.
I agree, William! I think a sad, sad thing about society today is that kids grow up with this infallibility and entitlement complex, where they “deserve” all of life’s fruit. They are blind to the realization that there is a cost and NOTHING is free. It seems that every generation that goes by, the more kids expect and take for granted. Well put, William!
Heather, I don’t think he’s totally jumping the gun, per se. Seriously, kids these days typically act like they can do whatever the hell they want, and get away with whatever they want without consequence. Mind you, this IS a generalization, and not all kids in this Y generation are that way, but a lot of them are. I NEVER thought I would turn into my parents and being all crotchety and cynical and old-like, but it happens- to ALL of us. All of a sudden, you realize that a lot of kids you see are just punks and that they don’t respect their elders, etc. I don’t recall the last time I heard a child in our neighborhood address another parent by Mr. or Mrs.- it is “Hi, !” The one thing I will say, though, is just wait until you kids have kids of your own. THEN, and only then will you completely understand. And you will say, “Yeah, I get it, whatever. My kids will be totally different.” until you realize that you are where us parents are right now, and then you will say “OMGWTFBBQ!!!1! Those old people back on that ZenHabits commenter section were RIGHT!”
Sorry, I meant the kids would say “Hi, **first name**!”
But Matt, your situation is different from the original poster’s. There is a different between handling a young adult who’s trying to become independent — going to school or working — and one who doesn’t know what to do with their lives yet and isn’t putting in the effort to figure it out. Caitlin is not hanging around the house playing video games — she’s coming home from college for the summer. She’s on her way to independence and needs her parents to bridge the gap.
Setting harsh rules seems SO out of place in Alex’s situation. I’m sorry, but a curfew? I would have laughed at my parents if they were ever to have made such a suggestion at that time in my life, and I turned out alright.
As long as the kid doesn’t throw wild parties at home, I don’t know why you need to establish rules before she gets there. If she’s doing anything that bothers you, talk to her as an ADULT and then the three of you decide as a family what needs to change. You may find that YOU need to adjust your expectations as parents. Your daughter does have a right to privacy and autonomy, even though it is your house. She contributes by going to school and helping out when asked, but I would definitely not sit her down the day she gets there and lay these out formally. It seems like a way of guaranteeing tension in the family, rather than making things easier.
Leo-I love the post. And wow did it raise some protest!
I think some people misunderstood the intent of some of his points. Every functional household has boundaries, guidelines, and rules. They evolve and change over time. I have seen too many parents who don’t set boundaries. The parents, kids, and everyone around them are miserable. And these rules apply to everyone from the father/mother to the youngest child.
Did it come across as business like? Probably. This turned off some and appealed to others. What is the reader’s perspective? Are they analytical or pragmatic? If so, they probably liked it. Are they amiable or extroverts? Then the analysis that removed emotion offended them.
And as for the comment that family is a basic human right, you couldn’t be farther from the truth. Family is a blessing. It is a wonderful thing. It completes your life. It is a privilege that some people never get and that some people give up. Some of us grew up in dysfunctional homes. Family wasn’t granted to us, we had to build and earn it. That makes it even more precious.
Matt…
I’m running to work… so I really skim read you post but I’m afraid that by the time I get home you wont be reading this anymore.
I am 40yrs old and have a 21 yr old step son (quazi moved out), a 18 yr old son (grade 12 at home) and a 16 month old son…. so I actually do have a little experience in the field :)
I have found (in general) that parents that treat their children either like best friends or at the opposite end (very controling, regimented, talked down to etc…) have major problems when their kids are teens and early twenties. ALSO each child needs to be parented individually. In our house the 18 yr old is much more mature than the 21 yr old and I find we ourselves being much more diciplinarian with the older one just because he needs it.
I agree that as a society we have lost a lot of respect for our elders… unfortunately I place a lot of that blame on the previous generation. I find there has been a lack of respect in both directions. Where are the kids suposed to learn respect if not from their elders?
For example… my parents insisted I call adults “Mr and Mrs so-n-so” ALL of my neighbors insisted that I DO NOT do that…. my calling them by their first name was their choice and so I had to respect that/them. Here, now, if a child calls you Mr so-n-so chances are he is being disrespectful or he is scared of you. (sad but true)
I do agree with one point you made. One of my favorite quotes is : “If a man thinks at 40 the way he did at 20, he has wasted 20 years of his life”
I am offended by this article and should not have been on Zen Habits.I am from India,am 29 years old,unmarried and live with my parents.I work in the healthcare sector and take care of the bills etc.My parents are happy that I am there for them.The way the article is written it could have been directed at a paying house guest.Oh wait,this guy might actually ask for rent and then she would be a paying house guest.If the child is like the terror Matt is burdened with then such a post would be relevant.Otherwise it is inhuman to think of your kids as a burden.Even if u feel that way why do u have it say it out loud?He didn’t even leave this in a hand written note on her bed,he is posting it on the internet.What would her friends think about Caitlin?At her age 18 that is very important for her.I hope you are financially well off.Because the healthcare costs are going to go through the roof from now(it is already high but it will go even further even faster) as the dollar tanks it will buy less and less.So when you finally get that hip fracture you might not be able to afford quality medical care and may have to depend on family members.With this attitude the maximum I would expect her to do is to bring you flowers.So my advice as a doctor would be to live healthy,calculate your medical risks using online calculator,analyze the future costs in terms of discounted cash flow analysis and compare the costs with the costs of spending money on your daughter.Also take into consideration the possibility that your daughter might care more than a paid nursing staff into your calculations.The culture is very alien and since this all about money,I think this would help people to make a rational and profitable decision.If the healthcare costs>kids cost then butter up to your kids,if kids cost>healthcare costs then boot them out.(/sarcasm)
Oh in case one is wondering what kids can do about healthcare costs,they can give you money in times of need and they might charge a lower rate of interest.
Leo,I know you are busy with the triathlon but seriously this blog is one of the 5 (yes people only 5) that I have on my read list.I purged 74 other feeds that were there.This is why I had to post because I felt so strongly.
discounted cash flow analysis calculator
http://www.bplans.com/common/calculators/dcf.cfm
This article is extremely poignant given the current economic climate which has lots of people hurting.
I agree whole heartedly with the points of establishing boundaries and coming up with an exit strategy.
If you are unable to do those two things, then not only will the relationship be unhealthy, the parent and the child will be stuck with each other.
MrAchievement
Stanley Bronstein
Attorney, CPA, Author, Blogger & Professional Motivational Speaker
Wow, I wish my parents had thought of something like this for us when I was in college. I’m 25 and I’ve since moved far away from home, but somehow my parents still expect me to act and be okay with being treated like I’m still in high school. And yes, your list does indicate that the ground rules about curfew, etc should be the same as when the child was at home…but I think they’re clinging a bit too much too it. Something like this might have helped them not let go, but change the way they relate to me.
@Ralph Bloom, I agree that what happens in your house is your business, and if you have adult offspring there, and you voice the above opinion clearly, they I suspect its likely they won’t stick around for too long, so there will be no one to respect your “PARENTAL AUTHORITY- FOREVER!”. Your approach is a good way to keep them away, maybe for good, and if that’s your intention, bravo!
@Alex: I see cultivating an adult relationship as negotiating with a spirit of mutual respect, rather than dictating terms like establish rules unilaterally. One could instead seek consensus. I agree that if you find her position unacceptable, asking her to find other accommodations is reasonable, since you’ve done your child-raising, but the post above suggests that an adult relationship doesn’t seem high on the list, and was thrown there as an afterthought.
I’m in agreement with B Smith’s comment - good analysis of the situation and the resulting responses. And hey, we even have a troll. :P
Someone who thinks that being part of a family is a privilege rather than an unalterable condition they themselves created by adoption or birth doesn’t need to be writing about family issues. I’ve never heard of anything so preposterous!
Woe to the family whose members can never come home. We throw away our old people to the nursing homes when they don’t fit in, or cramp people’s style. Now this guy’s saying his own kids need to fit in to his schedule.
I suppose this is indicative of a cultural difference. I feel this guy should count his lucky stars that his kids WANT to come home, and not be kids that when they leave, they leave for good and don’t even call or show up for holidays.
A few readers seem not to have noticed that some of us “oldsters” were just as outraged as younger readers at the tone and tenets of Alex’s guest post. As the fiftyish parent of a terrific grown son, I could hardly believe what I was reading. Alex is not acknowledging his daughter’s right to adult respect and space (let alone privacy from thousands of strangers on the Web!). He does not seem to grasp the vast developmental changes that people go through in that first year away. Moreover, someone who has distinguished herself academically in her freshman year does not sound troublesome or unruly to begin with. Yet she is being “welcomed” home with all the warmth and trust of a hypervigilant juvenile probation officer. (Curfews, by the way, went out of style not long after I finished college — good riddance. For obvious but atavistic reasons, they were imposed selectively on college women, never on college men). Leo, you have a unique and wonderful blog, but this guest columnist has truly missed the boat.Perhaps you need to remind Alex that a visit to your blog is a privilege, to be conducted with proper deference and subservience to certain nonegotiable and infantilizing Rules of Decorum . . (Just kidding!). Seriously, though, it would be good to see this disturbing and wrongheaded post deleted from your archives.
Run, Caitlin, run!
Do not pass go. Do not return home for the summer. Do NOT re-enter this man’s home until he’s ready to actually have the adult relationship with you that he is not yet ready to have.
So much for adulthood! If you’re intent is to make sure she never wants to do this again, you are likely to succeed. She’s spent the better part of a year off on her own, she’s not interested in being treated like a child anymore. Fair’s fair, you want to keep your home quiet after hours, etc. Just keep in mind that your now-grown-up daughter has probably realized that she doesn’t need to live under mom and dad’s rules any more.
At least you’re not charging your daughter rent, so perhaps this is a fair tradeoff for your unwillingness to allow your daughter independent freedom while she spends the summer in her childhood home.
But I bet you next year that, given the choice between a cheap sublet in Lawrence versus all the limitations, restrictions, and demands of Home Sweet Home, she won’t pick Home again. And besides, paying rent and maintaining your own living environment is a more important life skill to learn than how to be an enabler for your parents’ empty nest and control issues.
In fact, the use of the word “child” in the headline hammers the nail home. This parent does not accept the notion that their daughter is an ADULT, not a KID, regardless of how much older you are than them and how many diapers you changed.
Caitlin needs to learn how to be her own person, not Mom and Dad’s person. We’re not talking about punk 13 year olds. We’re talking about a legal adult
I’m afraid I’m going to differ from most of the comments above and say that I think this is sensible advice.
I had a fairly crap summer after my first year away from home at university, because I failed to get a job, hung around the house bored and broke, and missed my friends and freedom.
My parents were wonderful (in retrospect … at the time I had some awful rows with them) but I’d probably have had a better few months if they’d laid down some ground rules and been clear how I was going to contribute to the household. My second year, I got a job in my university town and spent the entire summer break staying in halls because I felt like I’d “failed” by going home the prevoius year. I learnt to really appreciate (and miss!) my folks then — and the experience of having my first full-time job was invaluable.
I think Alex’s advice is aimed at parents like mine — people who tend to over-induldge their offspring — and I’m sure he’s not advocating being cold or unloving towards your kids. When he writes that:
“Shopping for new items for her apartment, gradually giving her more autonomy as the summer wanes into the fall, and planning the Thanksgiving holiday details when we will unite as a family again, are all things we can do to help with the transition from the nest and back into her independence.”
– it’s clear he has HER best interests at heart; he wants to make sure she’s both included as part of the family (for Thanksgiving) but also feels supported as an independent adult.
Ali
I think there is some piling on her. I haven’t got kids and I’m not even sure that I agree with Alex but I do respect his right to voice an opinion.
As for taking offense. C’mon this is a blog, if you’re going to take offense about something, make it something worthwhile like world hunger, poverty or war.
I too have a problem with “Being part of a family is a privilege.” If my parents ever told me that, I’d be certain to make my visits less frequent.
But learning to create an adult relationship is very important. When I first came home from college, it was hard for my parents to remember that I had changed, I had learned a lot more about myself and the world, taken on a lot more responsibilities, and not the same person I was in high school.
It sounds a little odd but I don’t believe I have set any rules as a mother, my teenage children are independent, loving, successful in school and with their peers, respectful, good people. I think my husband and I lead by example, we love our children unconditionally and I suppose we were also just plain lucky. Our rules could be summarized in 4 words: work hard, be nice
My daughter is coming home from her first year away, she has successfully navigated a demanding program in a foriegn culture. During a ten month period we only saw her twice. I am counting the days not thinking about rules (not that I ever thought about rules anyway . . .)
As an example of leading by example, my 17 year old son is going to his first dance (yes, he’s a homebody), he asked me last night if it would be okay if came home a little late - I asked how late, he said midnight. I told him that would be fine but he needed to double check his date’s curfew. In my opinion thats how respectul conversation works between parents and their kids.
one more example - I know my kids’ friends were always shocked that we didn’t “ground” our kids, but since when is spending time w/family, at home a punishment?
Stephanie, you are right, my situation does differ, and in re-reading the posting, I found myself scratching my head on a couple accounts, but still believe about 98% of what Alex said. I believe that overall basic respect for those who live in the house on a permanent basis is key. Respecting the life change and routines for those who live in the house on a permanent basis is also key. Curfews? Maybe not so much, but maybe checking in to ease any worry about her safety (as ALL parents do,or should worry). And the “transition in the fall seems to be a more permanent transition, since Caitlin will be moving into an apartment. Granted, these are generalizations, and it seems a lot of people have taken certain words out of context and have inflated them to make Alex a monster. Too bad for them in not reading between the lines and perhaps understanding that each family has it’s own unique dynamics, and this list is HIS way of dealing with his particular dynamic. There were times that I kept my parents up worrying that I was out until 4 a.m. All they asked for was a phone call because they are good parents and cared enough to worry about their son.
Heather, I really like that quote. And in our situation, it seems we have tried everything from being the friend and the disciplinarian, but to seemingly no avail. And I agree with what you said about each individual child needs individual attention/ discipline/ help depending on individual needs. Like I said above when addressing Stephanie: this may work word-for-word for Alex, but generally these are good rules to alter to fit the dynamics of each family.
Can’t help but feel like you’re not really treating her as an adult, actually. I certainly like the sound of ‘creating an adult relationship’ with your daughter, but it hardly goes hand in hand with ‘curfews’.
I too object to the idea that ‘being part of a family is a privelege’. I certainly wouldn’t want to spend much time with my parents if they started speaking like that!
I think it’s impressive that there are so many responses to this post and all from so many different view points. I think that articulates one simple fact — that everyone raises their children differently and that there is no right or wrong…it’s just what works for your family.
I am due with my first child (a daughter) in September. I’m 25 and take no offense whatsoever to Alex’s article. I think his suggestions are dead on — particularly because so much of what he is suggesting is open communication and setting clear expectations.
I always knew where I stood with my parents on almost any topic because we spoke openly about everything — it’s important to note, however, that they were NEVER my “friends”. (I intend to raise my daughter the same way). We could speak openly, but still spoke as parent and child, not friends. I now enjoy an adult relationship with both of my parents — once I no longer “needed” them (I moved out at 19) as “parents”, I was able to start relating to them as adults.
While Caitlin is more of an adult b/c she’s growing older and gaining opportunities for independence, she is still, in part, a “child” in the equation because she still needs her parents (whether she wants to admit that or not). There is no reason that her parents should give her free reign and not set expectations simply because she’s a college student — once she’s done college, on her own, supporting herself, then she can run free — at this point she still needs guidance.
Alex is sharing just one way of a parent handling a situation of an offspring returning home from college for a summer. Being an expectant parent, it has become so clear to me that I can open up 100 different books and read about 100 different ways to raise a child, and each one will have a follower and each one will think that way rings true. We should simply take from Alex’s suggestions what we can an incorporate it, if we’re interested, into what we currently do.
None of Leo’s posts are directed at us as dictating a one true way of doing things or behaving — Alex’s post is no different.
How about, ‘hi, it’s lovely to see you, how were finals?’
@ Ralph Bloom: Ralph, you really are going too far. I suggest that you re-think the tone of your comments. I think you are either trolling or really need to calm down. Perhaps read some of Leo’s posts?
Can I just remind you that this is a Zen Habits blog - usually we all manage to share our different and often quite opposed points of view in a calm and reasonable manner here. You really need to stop shouting.
Yes, Ralph, even someone like me of the “parental” generation knows that your capital letters are shouting. It is unnecessary, quite frankly it is rude, and your comments themselves are inflammatory, unnecessary, deliberately provocative, and violent in tone.
Especially saying that you would “backhand” your kids - hey I don’t know where you live, but in a lot of countries it is illegal to hit your children at all, let alone beat them. And can I just remind everyone again that the original poster is talking about an adult, not a child. Hitting another adult is definitely illegal.
I hope you either don’t actually have children, or that they stay away from you.
@ Matt - I don’t actually agree with you but you have raised a very sensible point about phones:
“There were times that I kept my parents up worrying that I was out until 4 a.m. All they asked for was a phone call because they are good parents and cared enough to worry about their son. ”
I did the same thing, but there were no cellphones back then! - nowadays though, parents have a perfect solution - if your son’s still out at 4am, call him on his mobile and point out that it’s getting kinda late … you never need stay up and worry anymore.
@ Katie Jennings: Perfect !!!
I generally like the ideas in this post (and have benefited from having parents who treated me with respect but not with complete adult freedom when I lived under their roof), but I can’t help but noticing that these are ideas that you haven’t yet implemented. This blog usually offers ideas that have already worked for someone (usually the poster), rather than untried suggestions. I’d be interested to read a post after the summer about what worked and what didn’t, and I’m sure parents with college-aged kids would be more interested than I am!
It is “strange” how people behave in online world. Last week when i checkd your subscriber list it was 55,000. Now it is 33,700…20k users unsubscribed in a week ??..
Leo, you should really look this numbers carefully..May be lack of posts make people reluctant to check the blog daily….But i certainly believe that people would come back once u post regularly..
all the best..
That’s a shame about the unsubscribe-numbers. A blog is a huge commitment, no doubt about it.
This post probably would have opened up a miniature war amongst readers, either direction it took. Rather, what I mean is that parental preference is a hot topic that always differs very, very widely. It’s a little like religion in that, people are very sure and protective of their methods.
I agree some with both major ’sides’, here. Respect is respect, period. You have to give it to receive it. At the same time, I would like to say this; I just want to put it out there:
A child is your choice. Your idea, your actions, your responsibility. Your choice. Your. Choice. So it would seem that a parent should act accordingly.
At any rate, decent post. Respect is crucial, and I positively think that at this point in the lives, parents and children should have that adult relationship.
“Final exams at Kansas University are only a few weeks away.”
It’s the University of Kansas. Yes, we fondly call it “KU,” but that doesn’t stand for Kansas University. It is the UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS.
As a Jayhawk myself, I don’t know anybody who left Lawrence for a summer at home with the ‘rents unless they absolutely, positively had no other choice. I knew people who even took summer school to avoid going home.
It’s probably not too late to enroll for summer school, Caitlin. I’m sure they even still have spaces in the Daisy Hill dorms. And Western Civ is so much less painful when they cram it into eight weeks instead of sixteen! Stay in Larryville!
I’ve been reading your blog for months now, and I had NO CLUE your daughter goes to KU!! My sister goes there, and I live about 30 minutes away. My family and I are huuuuge jayhawk fans! Lawrence is such a great town! Just sharing some KU enthusiasm :) Rock chalk!
I am reading this with interest. My oldest dd is coming home for the summer after getting suspended for the second time for her grades (for 6 months) at college. I want she and I to be there for each other and have mutual respect even though we are both upset right now, I love her alot.
Dear Ralphie, by gummy-cracky, I suggest you go back to your underground bunker. From what you’ve said, you and Josef Fritzl would get on just fine. Now can we all just play nice and hope tomorrow’s installment doesn’t cause a similar case of apoplexy?
Wow. Several issues:
1. Article’s tone not great.
2. Reaction to it terrible–either they hate it or they are coming off as complete yelling weirdos who brag about slapping their kids. Yeah, you, Ralph Bloom. Very little rational discussion here.
3. I tried to comment but it didn’t show up, so don’t know if comments are having technical issues.
4. This article was posted 15 hours later on another blog. I sure hope it was a mistake and that the submitter did not lead two bloggers on with thinking they had exclusive access.
5. I did not like the article, but I do think that certain ground rules are important (and I don’t have issue with housework or curfew really). I don’t think the father writing here is treating his daughter like an adult though. No thoughts on privacy or respect. Calls her “child” in the headline. I suspect it will be an awkward summer. Good luck.
“This investment yields very, very favorable returns when we get to experience them as adults.” This is very true in my experience.
@ Ralph bloom: I know i’m going to regret engaging a troll, but i’m confused as to why even according to your logic, you would punish a child for coming home- surely they haven’t “disrespected” you for doing so? Or am I just not following your crazy troll logic? (Points to anyone who gets the TV reference there- yes, I am in college right now!)
Firstly: seriously, that many exclamation marks unfortunately makes you look a little like a 13 year old on myspace.
Secondly: I’m a pacifist, had i been alive during the vietnam war I would have joined the anti-war movement so constantly screaming you are a veteran wins you zero respect from me.
Thirdly: Do you even have a point?
Wow…. I’m so sorry that you’re so angry. It must cause a lot of pain to those around you. No, I haven’t been in any of the situations you describe, I suppose the one comparable for my generation would be Iraq- but no, i wouldn’t kill an innocent person just so George Bush can have a reliable oil supply if that’s what you’re asking. I’m still confused as to what your point is about college kids home for the summer? Thanks for the lack of exclamation marks, makes your posts so much easier to read.
It’s called therapy, Ralph.
This will be the first time I come home for the summer, I got a job nearby to where my parents live. When I have gone home to my parents during breaks, there have always been too many rules to even keep track of. I have always been a good student, and not made much trouble at all. My parents moved to this city two years before I went to college, so their house is not my home. Despite all if this, I still have a midnight curfew and I don’t have access to a car, among other things. I believe my sister plans to work evenings, so this can not even be classified as “family time.”
In the past I have gotten summer scholarships and cheap subleases to avoid imposing financially on my parents, and all of last year I worked part time. It is not the students’ fault that SCHOOL DOES NOT GO YEAR ROUND. Acting as if the student has planned badly or made a mistake by coming home for the summer is incorrect and unfair. Once the student has moved out, unless they do something to disappoint the parents, they deserve to be treated as an adult.
@ Briana- Spot on!
Hello,
I have been reading this post with some mixed feelings. I appreciate the adult manner in which most (with the exception of our troll, Ralph) are engaging this discussion, but I feel that I have some points that I would like to make.
Allow me to tell my story….I grew up in a small town of about 300 and later moved to a larger one of about 11,000. It’s a college town and is host to a rather nice Christian university that made me a very good offer. I decided to stay at home while attending there, hoping to save money due to the fact that I am planning on attending law school after graduation - a very pricey prospect.
My Mom and Dad have taken a very similar approach to what this article advocates - establishing “house rules” that supposedly “everyone” must follow (Except for them, it seems), expecting me to do a fair share of the chores and such. I actually needed to double-check to see if this was written by my Dad or not.
Now, don’t get me wrong - I realize that these things need to be done and that they are paying for my college education. I am very grateful. That being said, I would appreciate a bit of consideration as an adult as well. I always take 18 hours of classes, I am an honors student and working on a rather massive paper so that I can complete the honors program at the college, I have a GPA well above 3.8, I have played major roles in 3 of the college’s theatrical productions, I have served on student government for 3 years running, and for the following year I have been elected Student Body President and I have refrained from drugs, alcohol or sex of any kind during my college career. I also hold a job at the library for 15 hours a week.
Now, I realize that these things need to be done, like I said, and I have no problem taking out the garbage, mowing the lawn, doing the dishes, doing my clothes-washing or any of the other tasks that my parents ask of me. I do, however, have a problem with the way that they ask me. My parents insist that the minute that they tell me to do one of these things that I do it, and that it takes priority over any of the other activities that I mentioned above. I would have no issue if they would simply ask me and let me get to it on my own time. Instead, however, they insist on treating me like a 11 year old.
Further, my parents are continuously nagging me about getting a second job during college. I realize that money is tight, but having a second job would make my grades and my extracurricular activities fall flat. I also have no problem taking out student loans should the need arise, but as of yet, my parents have never asked me to assist with tuition.
My second problem here is that my parents treat me as if I am a lazy man who doesn’t do any “respectable” work. They don’t seem to consider what I do as “real” work, and thus make light of it. This is not a good way to foster a relationship as an adult. As soon as the opportunity arises, I will be trying to move out - not because I hate my parents, but because I simply can’t take their treatment any longer and maintain my sanity and maintain my love for them.
Sadly, I know that I cannot talk to them about this. Any attempts to have adult conversations end with the phrase, “Well, you’re still a kid.” However, when they want me to do something, the conversations end with, “Well, you’re an adult now.” I just wish that they would make up their minds.
I just wish that they would show me that they do love me.
Ralph - I’m not sure you are serious, perhaps someone making a joke.
I find it somewhat ironic that you are demanding respect from others for being a Veteran and then criticizing kids for having a sense of entitlement!
I am sorry about your child in Vietnam.
But I have a question RELATING TO THE ARTICLE. If one of your children were having trouble with their life wouldn’t you want them to know that they could come home and rely on your support for a while? Isn’t this the role of the father? To protect?
Looking forward to your answer…
The Daily Minder
People, please don’t respond to Mr. Ralph Bloom. It will not accomplish anything, and will just cause this to spin further out of control. You will not calm him down or change his perspective. I hope he will not change yours.
We all enjoy the blog for the Zen influence on our life. Such hatred and anger is contrary to that.
Pacifist or not. Liberal or conservative. This conflict contributes nothing to our lives and can only do us harm.
Well said B Smith.
Thanks for the answer Ralph. Zen is about understanding, that’s all people here are trying to do.
TDM
Ralph - not everyone here is in the USA.
Beyond the statement about being part of a family is a privelige (which I hope the author will reconsider), I thought this was a valuable post. Rather than seeming controlling, I thought that Alex was wise to plan intentionally and think ahead to the changes welcoming his daughter back, and then saying goodbye again. I thought that he expressed a great deal of caring with that intention. At the same time, he recognizes his and his wife’s own needs, and that’s important too. Things have changed for them, too, not just for their daughter.
After two years of living at home during college, I moved out to an apartment and never really felt like I was welcomed back or my feelings considered after that. I felt more comfortable having my first Thanksgiving after moving in a barbeque joint in the city rather than go home.
Some intentional thinking and planning about how to stay connected would have helped tremendously with my transition to living on my own, and given me the feeling that I was cared for and supported even while living on my own.
Alex, thanks for writing this piece and helping me to think ahead to when my own kids leave the nest.
Amen, B Smith.
Daily Minder- I’m sure all of us would want our kids to rely on us in times of need. Maybe I shouldn’t use “kids”- perhaps offspring, but it sounds to sterile… anyhow, I believe that a lot of this post has gotten blown out of proportion, and to reiterate what I had said earlier, it seems Alex was giving his perspective on what he expects to happen, and is preparing accordingly. Every point he made may or may not work for him. Like a previous poster said, it would be nice to hear a follow-up post as to how it all went, good or bad. Ultimately, I believe that he offered his points to be taken for those who want to take it, and to all of you out there that think he expects us to take it as gospel, and everyone should do it, I think you have it all wrong. I, personally, will take a number of his ideas, since I feel like I have been at a stalemate with my step- son. Not ALL points will be used, but I think he has a good idea that one should expect a shift in the family dynamic when a progeny (there’s the word, maybe) returns after having been gone for a number of months and home adjustment has been made. I’m sure on both ends, there needs to be a compromise.
@Anonymous, I am happy to hear that you are doing very well in school, and that you appreciate how your parents have provided for you. I do sympathize that expectations are a lot higher for you in the realm of getting a second job. IMHO, school is a LOT more important than getting that second job. Not to patronize since I can see you are not a “dummy”, but speak with a financial aid adviser at your school to see if you qualify for grants and scholarships. Also, and don’t taker this the wrong way, but as far as extra-curricular activities, will they help you in your area of study? Perhaps take a step back and asses the necessity of the extras. Just a thought.
As far as your second problem, communication is the answer, I believe. Perhaps tell them that you would rather have an “adult conversation” or “I would have hope we could be adults about this” if they make light of your endeavors. If all else fails, write them a sincere letter. They would have to read it, no matter how passive aggressive it is. Tell them what is on your mind and that you just want them to hear you, and how the way they carry on is hurtful and is counter-productive. While they are helping you with the tuition, it is an “investment” for your successful future, since it is your life career goals that you are laying the groundwork for. College is a very important time in a person’s life, and it is senseless for them to undermine your goals and dreams. It is a waste to let your grades suffer. The best of luck to you!!! (sincere use of exclamation points there, people)
Gosh as a child that had to boomerang after college in order to save money for med school, you have now made me feel REALLY bad. LOL
I am now off to buy my mom the world’s best Mothers Day present….
Thanks, great article :D
Matt:
Thanks for your support! I spoke to financial aid early on in my college career - my parents pay roughly 3,000 dollars per year in tuition. The rest was paid for through merit scholarships (In excess of 10,000 per year) and it’s doubtful that I could get much more…
As far as the extra-curriculars go, admittedly, some are just for the fun of it and some are job-oriented. Student government is a rather large boon to a law school application, especially if you can prove that you worked to achieve something useful in your tenure….the plays are something that I do merely for the enjoyment, but I don’t think that a bit of that here and there is really a bad thing….(Of course, I know that that isn’t what you’re saying, but still). So many people that I’ve seen consume themselves in their work to the exclusion of everything else, and I’d really rather not do that - it seems like such a waste of a lifetime.
As for writing a letter to my parents…well, the last time that I opened a dialogue on the subject, it didn’t go well. My Mom ended up in tears saying that I was ungrateful for everything they’d done, my Dad wouldn’t speak to me for a week….it basically becomes a contest of “Who’s the busiest”. If they bring up the subject of a second job again, I may very well end up doing that, but I’d like to avoid it since it would probably mean alienating myself from my parents for several years to come. I’d really rather not do that, since my relationship with my family is more important than money or even my grades…Although I’d hate to have to make the choice. I suppose that something else to consider in this is that I’m the first in my family to attend college and the only way that they have any knowledge of the workload is through what the media and movies portray - which is usually somewhat derogatory towards the whole college academic experience. But, I’ve only got another year to go, so I should be able to grin and bear it until then, I guess.
@ B Smith- You’re absolutely right of course, I just couldn’t resist, guess I have a way to go on the whole zen thing :)
@ Ralph bloom- I’m not american. So constantly shouting that you protect a country that I don’t belong to really won’t gain you any respect. Also, you can’t be ‘furious with rage’, because furious by definition means you’re already angry! You could be, for example, ‘furious with x’, that’s fine. But honestly your posts would be so much easier to read if you used full stops (I’m not sure what americans call them- I seem to think periods?? The dots that finish a sentance) and less capital letters.
@ Everyone saying that having a family is a privilege, because of its value and that people should cherish it, or that it can be denied:
Anything can be denied: but we separate rights from privileges by saying that to deny a right is morally wrong.
A privilege is something that isn’t necessary; a luxury that _can_ be denied without it being wrong.
Driving is a privilege because taking it away is not morally wrong.
A right is something that is necessary. It is morally wrong to deny someone their right. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t possible for a right to be denied (people are denied various rights all the time), just that when it is denied, that’s wrong.
Life is a basic human right, because it’s wrong to deny someone of that right.
That doesn’t mean people _aren’t ever killed_, just that we recognize that that’s _wrong_.
Having a family is a basic right, because to deny someone a family is morally wrong.
That doesn’t mean that people can’t possibly be denied that right (growing up in a broken home), it just means that it’s wrong to deny one.
Sure, privileges can be cherished too, but by definition the things we cherish and value the most (by recognizing their denial as wrong) are _rights_, not privileges.
Final Note:
Of course, it gets complicated when multiple people are involved, because people’s rights can conflict with each other (or with society), but that’s another story …
@ B Smith:
Life is a right, a blessing, and it’s wrong to deny it.
I agree that family too is a blessing, but that doesn’t make it any less of a right than life. Just because people are denied families doesn’t make it a privilege, as just because people are killed doesn’t make life a privilege.
Both can and are denied on a regular basis. That doesn’t make them privileges, because we recognize that such a denial is wrong.
You schmucks really know how to create drama and turmoil out of every mundane event. Get over yourself.
Cheers
I do hope that a lot of you read this mail from an Indian (the original, not the red variety!) living in India now.
This post and all the comments gives me a clear vision of the value system that your society operates in. For me, and many like me, in India the value system is completely different and the emotional element in a child;’s coming home is substantially different. Please note, that I say different, not better or worse just simply different.
I am 65 and in retirement after a highly successful corporate career culminating in Board level and Chief Executive positions. I have traveled extensively all over the world and so, am not quite the run of the mill, arm chair pundit of India.
When we bought our first and only home twenty years ago, it was planned for retirement. To take advantage of the then existing tax laws, I bought part of the property in my son’s name and took a loan in his name which he repaid from the rent that I paid him to stay in part of the property. Today, the property is debt free but still in both our names. My son, an only child, has been insisting that he gifts his part of the property to me which I have insisted is foolish as, after me, what I have goes to him!
Finances? My parents sacrificed quite a bit for my education, and I considered it a privilege to finance my son’s. He too financed part of the expenses for his post graduate studies, but this aspect of the relationship has never been part of the considerations in our relationship.
Drama? Am I being a schmuck? I do not know. I now have to adjust to the fact that God, if you want to call Him that, has given me a new perceptive on life, children, homes, and family values. He has also led me to this blog and such scintillating comments. I do hope that these comments of mine will generate some more comments and I do look forward to reading them.
My son after some knocking about in various places, came back to our home seven years ago and got married too and brought his lovely bride to our home. This is still quite common in India and so, it is no big deal. Two years ago, both decided to divorce each other and just be friends, and that too now a days is quite common in India.
After that, our son, left to set up his own home and stayed away from us for over a year. In the meanwhile, my health as well as my wife’s underwent some hiccups and now, our son has returned to be around for us.
Physically, although he returned to the nest, mentally, for the two of us, it is as though we have gone to his home to nest finally.
I’m so very glad that I never had to come “home” to your house! In my experience, my parents welcomed my new found freedom and treated me like the adult i had become. There was no question about respecting one another because that was a given on both of our ends. This doesn’t seem to fit in with the rest of the theme here at Zen Habits nor do some of the comments seem like they come from readers and fans of this blog. I’m not quite sure why it’s still posted but i hope Alex doesn’t agree with some of these points. Also, i am very confused as to why Ralph Bloom is so angry that he writes every comment
IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is this guy for real?
I think people are getting way to offended over a sensible post. Those offended have some good points. I think the problem with the post isn’t in what he suggested. It is in the wording of a couple of sentences.
What the author was writing out is what many parents naturally do when their kids return from college. Face it, the dynamic between parent and child changes dramatically after college.
As a senior in high school the child has been living under a set of rules and expectations that were honed over the 18 years of the adult/child relationship. Then as they become freshman the new adult begins life with a new set of rules and expectations for 10 months and then many go back into the house of their parents.
They are no longer the child they were when they left and there is no way they are going to be content to go back under the same rules as before. The parents have a right to expect certain courtesies in their own household and have the right to expect their child to extend those courtesies.
Both parties are going to have an idea about how life is going to be for the summer. The question is, are they going to be addressed? If they aren’t addressed and the parents just say “welcome back, here’s your room,” then it can be expected that both parties will become bitter. The new adults going to naturally try to maintain the college life and the parents are probably still expecting life to be close to the way it was when their child was a senior in high school. The parents will be angry when their unexpressed needs aren’t met and the kid is going to be angry when the parents get upset with them.
Life will be happier for the summer the parents take the time at the beginning to share the expectations of both groups. I see nothing wrong with the parents asking the child to help out with laundry or giving some of the younger kids a ride and I definitely think its fine for a parent to say we sleep at this time and we ask you to respect that time. As a parent, I know it is hard to sleep when you are worried about your child asking them to be in at a certain time to ease that worry isn’t wrong. It’s easy to delude yourself into thinking your kid is safe in their dorm and studying away, when they are off at college. But, when they are in your home and you know that they are out, its hard to turn off those worries.
The author has given good advice, maybe it came off a little awkward, but it is sensible advice none the less.
Interesting! While I am finding it a good idea to discuss certain things and be prepared for any type of visitor, I did not even think about grading any of the examples in the above article nor did I assume that they very meant literally. E.g. curfew time? There simply might be none. Problem solved for me, but obviously not for everyone. In that respect Alex could have written the article a bit more carefully, but …
Being offended roots more in oneself than in anything else. Don’t let yourself being offended by an article?
Being part of a family is a privilege.
This one sentence created a maelstrom in the Blogosphere yesterday. The purpose of this response is not to retract it; but to explain my point of view. I acknowledge the position of the folks who took issue with it. This is my position:
I do believe being part of a family is a blessing. My family is a blessing. And, with the blessings comes responsibilities. In hindsight, I should have made this point as well – I agree.
I also wrote: “The most fundamental of these responsibilities is to be accountable and to follow the family-approved rules. No one is exempt for these and there are no exceptions.” I’m part of this mix, too. Meaning, I’m accountable to the family rules and I have to check-in if I’m running late, etc. I don’t expect my children to follow a different set of rules – we all have the same rules.
To be a part of something larger than yourself is indeed a privilege. We have the responsibility to give back and to cherish and respect the integrity of the family.
Alex Blackwell
Where’s Leo?
I think this blog has gone off track over the past 2 months from what it used to be and the recent radio silence hasn’t helped.
I was wondering if it was just me that felt that way. I thought that if its true it would be reflected in the number of subscribers - it has - it was around 54k at peak, and today its saying 33k.
I hope your other projects are going well Leo. This blog seems to be suffering.
Go well.
This whole ugly conversation (if one can call it that) might have been avoided if Alex Blackwell had consulted a dictionary prior to writing something to be viewed by so many in cyberspace.
When someone who fails to use words according to their precise meanings posts something to be read by people who fail to assign words their precise meanings, he creates a recipe for just such a mess as we see here.
Now, then:
In context, the words here so embroiled in controversy have these strict meanings:
FAMILY
1: a group of individuals living under one roof and usually under one head : household
2 a: a group of persons of common ancestry : clan b: a people or group of peoples regarded as deriving from a common stock
PRIVILEGE
1: a right or immunity granted as a peculiar benefit, advantage, or favor
BLESSING
2: a thing conducive to happiness or welfare
Had Alex chosen to admit the fact that being part of a family is a biological fact and a cultural reality regardless of mutual agreement or harmony among those involved, he’d have been off to a good start.
He might then have pointed out that being part of a harmonious, cooperative, supportive family can be a privilege based upon the acknowledgement of one’s contributions to the same.
If, after making those two points he had stated that the feelings enjoyed by someone who is part of such a pleasing situation are a blessing, he’d have nicely wrapped up his declarations.
But he didn’t; instead, he made a muck of it, didn’t he?
He reiterated: “Being part of a family is a privilege.”
Persistent bugger, Alex, isn’t he?
Sloppy language makes for messy replies, old boy.
Remember, then, chaps: Words mean something, and opinions and emotions cannot overshadow their meanings.
Bloggers should remember that as they write.
Blog-readers should remember that as they read, and while they reply.
Cheers, then, mates.
Please, shut up Ralph Bloom. No one cares.
If you have problems, don’t do a scene on Leo’s blog (or any blog for that matter).
Mr. Bloom, you are making an idiot of yourself and I kindly request that you take your hate-filled ramblings elsewhere. I don’t know if you realize it or not, but in the course of this thread alone, you have advocated child abuse, spousal abuse, assault, battery and slander. You advocate honor yet you show none of it - no military man that I know of (those that I do know, I greatly respect) has such a dishonorable tone towards others. If you are truly who you say that you are, then you are a discredit to the men who fought and died for our freedoms because you are using their memory as a bargaining chip to make yourself look better. More likely, however, you are a fraud and are thus incredibly insulting to everyone on this board. Kindly move along.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure, tough guy. You really expect me to believe that a “veteran” has nothing better to do than trolling on a random blog?
;)
Now…shut up and give me 50 push-ups, maggot!!!
I find this blog to be comically naive. First of all, Alex, shouldn’t you have experienced something before you write about how to cope with it? Second of all, quit your wining. Let a little light into your life. And third - don’t post blogs as solutions to problems you have yet to solve yourself. Poor form mate. Drop the ego, do some yoga, and call me in the morning.
~Oli
Ralph, you have some valid points. Problem is people are afraid of the truth. don’t let them get you down. Keep on keepin’ on!
@ Ralph Bloom: Having done some googling, I discovered that theres something called the GI bill. If you really are a veteran, which I somehow doubt, then please avail yourself of it- if nothing else, it may teach you how to write in full sentences. Exclamation marks/question marks really occur only once at the end of each sentence. Really.
Hey Leo–I know you’re very busy. I have a suggestion. Why don’t you repost some of your older entry in order to maintain the quality of your blog.
@ Alex Blackwell, Jason MacDougal
Perhaps then, a better substitute for privilege would be “honor”, as in: “It was an honor and privilege to know you.”
In that sense, I expect, we get a clearer understanding of what was meant:
Being part of a family is an honor and privilege.
If it’s in that sense that “privilege” was used, then I have no argument against it.
I think that the “business-like” terms and tone of the post made it natural to take “privilege” in it’s official and legal sense.
Be Happy!
Alex: Thank you for clarifying your position. Unfortunately it doesn’t address the primary point of the detractors here. I will try to explain.
Imagine your belief system as a sphere(or Venn Diagram), interacting with everyone around you. When you come across someone with a different sphere, you can either force that person away(not interact with them); envelope them/make them conform to your belief system(your young children, at least);or allow the two spheres to mingle(compromise).
Your post clearly demonstrates that people who live in your house have to abide into your standards and expectations. Although this seems rather suppressive to me, raise your children as you like.
However, the issue here is that you’re not raising your daughter any longer. She is an adult and has, or is in the process of, developing her own sphere; her own standards and beliefs. Your post shows indifference to this burgeoning development, asking her, for the “privilege” of living in your house for a few months, to deny all her adult gains. It’s a colossal step backwards for both of you. Some people are offended I suppose, but some, like I said in my original comment, are just saddened. Your family has a real opportunity to evolve and flourish, and you’re making gigantic efforts to deny it.
Wow, I leave you guys alone for one day … ;)
Sorry I wasn’t around for this discussion, we had some mother’s day activities yesterday and I was out all day.
Regarding the content of this post … it’s not really my style, but I like having different perspectives on this site. If everyone who did a guest post wrote exactly like me, it would be a bit boring.
I also like that it stirred up some discussion. That’s a healthy thing, and if it got people thinking about the nature of family, of the parent-child relationship, of treating people with respect and kindness … that’s actually a good thing.
I do wish people would be a bit more civil, but I understand that this can be an emotionally charged issue. Just remember that even when you’re posting a blog comment, you can hurt others, even if you don’t know them. :)
Agreed 100% Leo and different styles of thought and writing are what makes the Internet so amazing.
I wish people would refuse to post anything that they wouldn’t say to somebody’s face, although I’d guess some blogs would lose a lot of comments if that came to pass.
I know Alex and he is a good guy with a heart of gold. He offered an opinion, nothing more nothing less, and it should be treated as such.
It took guts to step back into the lions den and explain his position but it’s a shame he felt like he had to imho.
Hello everyone!
I’m a discrete reader of Zen Habits, which I consider to be a great blog. I don’t use to comment the posts placed in it, instead I like to read and think about them.
What I see in this post is someone that loves his daughter and has just defined a policy to manage the relation with her. If I agree with it or not that’s another matter. I can say that I don’t agree entirely with it, but some things make sense in my mind, specially the boundaries issue. Anyway, I think it’s better to have an active role in our children education (either they’re infant, teens or young-adults) than having nothing. Even if we agree with it or not.
We should remember always that each of us deals with its own reality following believes and patterns of thinking, behavior, atitudes, experiences, personal history, etc. Saying this, I think we are throwing all that (specially our believes) to someone that did no harm to anyone and deserves respect for his opinion as anyone else in this blog.
The stone age belongs to the past. Let’s do the same thing with the stoning age.
I read this blog, because it raises issues that makes me think and for all that matters I think Leo’s making a wonderfull job. I cheer him with his comment, because he showed once more the kind of man he is. Let’s get constructive!
I greet all of you with a warm heart and true respect. I wish you have a great Sunday with those who you cherish the most.
Cheers,
Vitor
PS: who is Ralph? I couldn’t read any comment from him…
I think Ralph’s comments have been deleted. Makes me look like my comments were talking to myself! lol
TDM
Ask not what you can do for your daughter, but what your daughter can do for you.
Alex: you can no longer “control” your daughter, treat her with respect and she will do the same. Just friendly advice.
i was being sarcastic about “Ask not what you can do for your daughter, but what your daughter can do for you ,” i just forgot to put the ? mark.
24 year old graduate student living away from home for years now. Don’t normally like to argue on the internet but this hits too close to home.
If I saw my parents had posted this, I would cry. Look at the title: “cope”? Seriously, you have to “cope” with your daughter returning for a few months? My goodness.
How about “Five ways to ENJOY the return of college kids”?
1. Have fun.
2. Have fun.
3. Have fun.
4. Have fun.
5. Tell them you love them.
I sooo agree with the above comments. Damn Leo what happened dude? I mean it was a shock to read that. I am so glad your not my parent. Privilege? Curfew? I’m 24 and had an awesome college experience. I never felt that I was a chore to my parents and required them to adjust to me. Sorry mate but I so disagree with this post and like Dizzy said above it should be a joyous kick ass filled time. Stop worrying about rules and just enjoy the precious time you have with her before she heads out again for another 9 months.
I’m like Vitor. I’m often a reader of Zen Habits and not one to comment. Leo’s right. He can’t always post the same old style of writing and variety never hurt anybody. This post has really generated a lot of discussion and that should be healthy. It got people thinking and generated ideas. It also allowed others to see different viewpoints.
I’m 24 too and though, I don’t agree with all of what Alex said –he has some points that are good. See people think differently at different stages of their lives. I’m the youngest among my colleagues who are Alex’s age in my college and their children are actually older than me.lol. When you’re a kid all you want to have is a good time. I’ve got no qualms on staying late partying till 4am whereas my co-workers would think twice. They’ve got more experience, have families and don’t have much energy as they used to. Plus, they’ve already been past that stage. And depending on your personality, you might be able to understand Alex’s side too but not too many rules please!
Leo, you might want to take a second look at Tyler Cruz’ comment. I think he and Ralph Bloom share the same style of writing and might be the same person. It’s the offensive military language that gave it away.
Leo - don’t know if you even read this blog anymore, but I have to say I am really disappointed. You have stopped making blog posts and I guess you are busy now that you have a book-deal. I’m glad we were pawns for you in your endgame.
Consider me as one of the 20,000+ that have unsubscribed from your RSS feed (the RSS feed subscribers have decreased from 50K+ to around 30K).
Now I see why having wire over the nest is a fitting picture. Completely uncomfortable, completely structured. Alex, you must be terrified something will go wrong with your family to actually make such an effort to manipulate–and keep total control–over them. Some call it narcissism. Seek therapy.
Maybe I drew too much out of the article; I can’t judge you, I’m not you. But this is what I got out of it. I’m sorry; I really have to disagree with the entire article. How can you expect your daughter to grow up if you keep treating her like she’s a child? Did you expect for her to work for her Gerber food as a baby too? You love her, and you give to her because you love her. She is part of you–of your flesh–and you should love and treat her how you treat yourself. Respect her, be glad she’s home. Come on, man. That’s what family is about. Do you really want to grow old and say, “Wow, I sure coped really well when my daughter grew up, what with losing my peace and quiet every now and then. I wonder what she’s been doing these last twenty years?”
Yes, I’m a “college kid.” I’ve lived on my own since I was sixteen, when I bought a plane ticket to South America and spent two years walking the continent, a bright blonde girl traveling with a taoist commune, a group of trapeze artists I met or a Guarani fellow named UvTv, who led me down the Parana river. I survived. I wrote a book about it, was published at eighteen. My father let me go because he had the faith that I was strong, that he had raised me right; he believed in me. His courage and faith in me was what MADE me strong. When I read that you feel you must structure your daughter so, I feel you don’t believe she could act correctly, even if you care about her. If she sees that you can’t believe in her, even for simple things like laundry, how can you expect her to believe in herself for big things?
I’m sorry you are in this situation with your family, whether it’s all in your head or not. And I send my condolences to Caitlin.
PS. Leo, PLEASE come back. Don’t let posts like this kill your blog. We need YOUR writing on YOUR blog. If we wanted other styles of writing…we would read another blog.
This blog is new age hogwash. You people are losers. Get some help one and all.
Seriously now! Why must so many of you be so extremely judgemental? How can you be so insulting to the author, a man you’ve never met? Even with the few disclosures in this post you still know nothing about his life.
Your words and attitudes are not consistent with your ‘Zen’ philosophy.
Shame.
Before you judge me as a person and a father, I invite you to see the whole picture. I wrote the following post, Confessions of a Recovery Father (http://www.thenext45years.com/2008/03/confessions-from-a-recovering-father.html) a couple of months ago.
If you have other judgments and criticisms for me after reading, please leave those on my blog so we can remove the negative energy from Leo’s. He doesn’t deserve it.
@Elizabeth:
That ain’t no bird’s nest in that picture, LOL! That’s a pipe and the wire is there to prevent nesting … and that ain’t no nesting material in that bird’s beak … it’s part of a katydid!
Maybe you wouldn’t know such things, but I do. Anyway, your observations about the picture just don’t apply! LOL
Leo, I am attempting to contact you about interviewing you for my next book on the subject of highly successful individuals and you have so many safeguards in place, it is hard to contact you.
IF you think it is worth your effort to investigate it, please feel free to contact me via the information provided.
While I think you are highly qualified, your safeguards make it so difficult to contact you that it is causing MAJOR problems.
MrAchievement
Stanley Bronstein
Attorney, CPA, Author, Blogger & Professional Motivational Speaker
This blog is silly. Why do baby boomers think they are the first to experience life. I laugh at you not with you.
Greetings everyone again!
I agree with Dave last post. Come on people! Let’s get constructive! There is no need for this…
Leo has given this site to share some personal insights about life so we can think about them. Invitation for other insights in life are always welcome and healthy, either we agree with them or not. We should hold on a little before we start “shooting” people, just because we don’t agree with them. I’m not saying with this you shouldn’t post your opinion, if you have one, you must! I’m just saying that you should do it in a more balanced and constructive way.
Leo, once more, I think you’re doing a great job with this blog. It’s one of the few I read regularly. Keep up the good work!
Best regards and wishes of a good life to everyone
Vitor
Many views expressed by people here stem from their own experience and how they would prefer things to be. It can be useful to step outside how you usually perceive things to imagine yourself in the position of someone else. Thus, you learn to expand your horizons and view your circumstances, expectations and reactions anew.
Its interesting to see all the different points of view.
I think a lot of people are over-reacting to what Alex posted - I do agree that using the word “cope” in terms of how he feels about his daughter’s return was a bad choice of words, but having read what he has written in the link he posted, I don’t believe he meant that it would be a traumatic time, and i think it was just a badly worded sentence.
Its difficult sometimes to understand other personality types, and how other people feel about their own lives and families. He details in the other article how basically he lost his daughter once through working too much, and is anxious not to do that again. He obviously loves her very much. But at the same time, his personality type means he has a need to be in control of everything going on in his life, in order not to fall over the edge.
I am a bit like that myself. I don’t have kids and I’m sure that if I did, i would probably have to let go a bit, but then I’m a woman, and it may not always be the same for men - I’m not trying to be sexist, but that is how society has traditionally worked and a lot of people in Alex’s generation may have been brought up with those values.
So maybe it is better view his comments from the point of view of firstly, a man who spent most of his daughter’s life concentrating too hard on his career which he now regrets, and secondly as a man who has spent life trying to be in control of every aspect of his life, but who is working on trying to let go of things a bit to try to improve his relationship with his daughter. But who is not finding that particularly easy.
I’m sure that his daughter knows these things about him, and if she loves her father, she will want to help him to do this, by complying a little with what he asks of her, but she sounds like a pretty independent person already if you read the other article. The way i read it, the fact that she is coming home for this summer means she wants to build their relationship.
@Alex Blackwell
I read your article at
http://www.thenext45years.com/2008/03/confessions-from-a-recovering-father.html
and was very impressed.I now understand you mean well.I guess your wording in the post were a bit off(”coping”,”exit strategy” etc) but after reading your article I understand what you are trying to do and I wish you and Caitlin the very best.Please accept my apologies,I misunderstood you and my culture system is a bit different from yours.
Leo and Alex, as the negative comments are in general directed towards either the site or the post, I commend the highroad both of you have taken in your own comments.
It disappoints me to think that people who read articles on self-improvement feel the need to bring down others.
This is a great post. It is a very nice blog too. I add it to my favorites. Thank you
Sounds like the daughter coming home is inconvenient? Glad my parents were a lot happier to see me after college.
Leo:
I’m trying to contact you about possibly interviewing you as one of 50 people being featured in my 4th book. I’m unsure which email address to use to attempt to contact you.
I would appreciate you contacting me at the email address provided with this posting or through my website.
Take care.
MrAchievement
Stanley Bronstein
Attorney, CPA, Author, Blogger & Professional Motivational Speaker
Moving back in with my parents was the dumbest thing I ever did. After having lived abroad for about 2 years, I thought things would be OK at home. You know, spend some quality time or do some family stuff. But boy, was I wrong. What followed can only be described as 7 months in hell. It felt like I’d just hit puberty, again.
It takes two to tango, that’s one thing you should always keep in mind very firmly.
I recently released a book (click link above for more on that) about college grads. This is the generation of Boomerangers–and parents still need to be parents to kids who move home after school. How you do it is up to you, but grads moving back home is so common nowadays.
Interesting read, all of this. Most of us, I suppose, come to zenhabits to get a breath of fresh air in the form of insight and wisdom. I usually leave feeling more charged up and motivated. This post and the comments seemed more like the current bitterness in the US political battle. Parenting and politics can be explosive.
As a martial arts instructor of many years, I have seen a large cross-section of parenting styles. Positive parenting leaves kids well-rounded, motivated, confident, and responsible. These type of young adults don’t need heavy rules as they grow older because they understand the value of self-control. Negative parenting — by neglect, over-protectiveness, or heavy-handed control — leaves kids insecure, apt to act out, and unable to leave their victim personality behind. These young adults need boundaries, but those boundaries must be overwhelmingly presented in love, support and nurturing, with the goal always being to help the young adults find their own inner strength and wisdom so they can manage their emotions and learn healthy self-control.
Hey, y’all make big noise ’bout the marriage and kids who come back to you! I mind the song we sing about getting hitched up down on Bayou Petit’ — a good one for the dance, yes? Make you think twice, pass a good time before you take the plunge!
O, parlez - nous a boire,
Non pas de mariage,
Toujours en regretons,
Les jolis jours passes.
S’it a ti maris, avec une jolie fille,
Te tands de grand danger, mon cher,
lls vont a la voler.
O, parlez - nous a boire,
Non pas de mariage,
Toujours en regretons,
Les jolis jours passes.
S’it a ti maris, avec une vilaine fille,
Te tands de grand danger, faudra,
Que tu fais ta vie avec.
O, parlez - nous a boire,
Non pas de mariage,
Toujours en regretons,
Les jolis jours passes.
S’it a ti maris, avec une fille bien fauvre, Te tands de grand danger, faudra, Travailler tout ta vie.
O, parlez - nous a boire,
Non pas de mariage,
Toujours en regretons,
Les jolis jours passes.
S’it a ti maris, avec une fille qui a de quoi,
Te tands de grand danger, faudra,
Attraper des grandes rapproches.
O, parlez - nous a boire,
Non pas de mariage,
Toujours en regretons,
Les jolis jours passes.
Parlez - moi, mon grand bon - a - rien, Tu ta gaspiller mon bien!
Parlez - moi, mon grand bon - a - rien, Tu ta gaspiller mon bien!
O, parlez - nous a boire,
Non pas de mariage,
Toujours en regretons,
Les jolis jours passes.
@Jimbo: Oh, haha. I knew it was an insect in it’s beak, but it really looked like a nest.
If it had been a nest, my comment would have applied.
Be careful!!
Your daughter might not return!!
If I were his daughter, i would definitely NOT come back. Even for a month. Even for a week.
@Jess: I’m sorry you’re disappointed … trust me, it has never been my intentions to use you readers as “pawns” and you’re still as important to me as ever. I’ve just been a bit overwhelmed lately and haven’t had much time for blog posts. However, I’ve decided to change that and re-prioritize, so you’ll be seeing more of me.
I appreciate your feedback, and especially the patience and understanding from all of you. You guys are what makes this blog what it is, and I hope you’ll continue to participate in the coming months. :)
I
IN light of all the tragedies in life…think about China and the earthquake and all those kids that will never get to grow up,never go to college to come back home, your whole commentary on your daughters return is saddening .
Im glad she is your daughter and not a strangers.
Your child is coming home..i dread the thought of my 16yr old not coming home .Is this military camp ?
if she cant break some basic rules in your house,where can she break them.
Relax,let go and stop writing a procedure manual for your childs return.
I hope your daughter or grandkids ever have to read this
ARE YOU KIDDING ME??
did you really just say being part of a family is a privilege.
By NO means is that a privilege, every single person is entitled to a family, it is a basic human right. Who are you to tell anyone that they are “privileged” to be apart of your family. thats absolutely ridiculous. I was very interested in reading your article, but after coming across that line I was immediately turned off and appalled. Yes some people do not have families for various reasons but who are you to basically punish your daughter and use the fact that she has a great life against her in making her do things to please and thankyou for bringing her into this world, she did not ask to come to this earth. You are by far one of the most close minded person I have ever come across. If I were your daughter, I would not even come to your house for a day. Go ahead and keep enforcing all of your rules while she is at home, but just know that in those 10 months while she’s away she will be doing everything you have instructed her not to do and more.
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