What’s in a Name? A Take on “Zen Habits” From a Zen Monk

SpaceAgeSage Says:

July 26th, 2008, 0:02 am

Having grown up hearing religious strife in Christianity over definitions, words, and “proper phrasings,” I can truly appreciate this perspective. Yes, what is the fight about, really? Drawing lines in the sand between people who are just trying to better themselves and the world doesn’t seem fruitful.

Vered Says:

July 26th, 2008, 0:27 am

“using the word Zen to illustrate how a blogger has changed his habits for the better — and wants to help others change their habits for the better — seems not only innocuous, but beneficial”.

I never realized people had a problem with the name of this blog, but I’m a newish reader so I’m sure there are lots of things I’m unaware of.

Of course it’s beneficial. It conveys a strong, clear message and makes people stop, listen and learn something that can help them better themselves and their lives. And, like you say, it makes this info, these principles, accessible. That’s a good thing.

Brandon Says:

July 26th, 2008, 0:32 am

A wonderful post. Considering the amount of flames on the comments in previous posts, its nice to hear someone help try and sort things out and address some issues. I am usually receptive to the comment and accepting that zen is a looser term that should not be taken literally or even defined. Much like SpaceAgeSage (above) it seems pointless to fight over definitions and word usage on a website post on the internet.

My only complaint: less lists. This may not directly relate to zen, but the constant use of lists is rather constricting and exhaustive. Lists always seem like they are just a tool to try and get on aggregators. The content is usually good here, just stop listing everything. Maybe a more natural approach is in order.

Marelisa Says:

July 26th, 2008, 0:39 am

To me “zen” connotes simplicity, taking away what is not necessary, focusing on what is important, looking inwardly for guidance, and seeing even the small things in life as a miracle. It seems to me that’s what this blog is about.

99ppp Says:

July 26th, 2008, 0:43 am

I find it pointless to argue over a definition of a word.

I also find it pointless to construct an argument to rationalize its use here.

My impression is that Leo found inspiration from his understanding of “Zen” and named his blog as such. I’ve had my quibbles of this blog, like the use of lists as Brandon mentions above, but I believe that Leo comes from a genuine place.

Andre Kibbe Says:

July 26th, 2008, 0:56 am

The commercial appropriation of the word Zen seems to have little to do with deep contemplation. Perhaps this is why so many are stirred up at seeing it used erroneously–if anything, the word seems to stop thought, and a blanket projection of peaceful and thoughtless bliss is conjured in the consumptive mind. “I’m going to buy me some of that peace of mind stuff!”

It seems as though that’s more of an aesthetic consideration than a commercial one necessarily, even if an exchange of money is taking place. After all, we do pay for all kinds of beauty and ambiance. “Peace of mind stuff” can be grounding in a culture of overstimulation.

For better or worse, Zen has been appropriated into the colloquial usages that have little or nothing to do with Zazen (not unlike “spirituality” being stripped of it’s theological context). People will say things like “I’m trying to stay zen about winning the lottery” to connote calm or dispassionate reflection. Or else they’ll use it in the context of minimalism.

I suspect that some of the heat generated about the blog title (aside of the usual cross section of any audience that will gripe about anything) may have to do with people coming in from search engines, expecting something a little more, er, “monastic.” All we can do is stay zen about it (note the lower case).

Scott McIntyre Says:

July 26th, 2008, 3:03 am

I found Laurel’s description of the concepts and beliefs of Zen both fascinating and enlightening in itself, Leo.

As someone who has studied the principles of Zen having come from the Western tradition, Laurel is well placed to point out how the Eastern philosophy could be ‘hijacked’.

My notion of Zen revolves around the theme of ‘an enlightened simplicity in one’s approach to life’. Laurel’s post adds depth to my previous understanding.

This debate again highlights to me the power of words, and how the use of one word can evoke- and provoke- such passionate reactions.

As is said: ‘choose one’s words carefully’…

Ann Says:

July 26th, 2008, 5:21 am

I think the fact that Leo has given up copyright on his works is more ZEN than anything else.
Go Leo!

endekks Says:

July 26th, 2008, 5:37 am

I get far more aggravated when people call the fat dude statue at Chinese restaurants a buddha than I do about people potentially misusing the word “zen”. Most westerners are far too polarised in their thinking to ever really grasp the true notions within the finer points of eastern thought that I learned long ago not to worry myself over it. The fact that so many cannot understand the distinction between “they’re” and “their” or “nauseated” and “nauseous” is more troubling to me, especially since they are English words, than whatever the ills of not properly using a word from a foreign language about an abstract concept.

Anyway, that is my take on the matter - and I’ve been buddhist for nearly 13 years, so I get exposed to all sorts of ignorant views of my beliefs - the use of the word “zen” being amongst them.

Pete Says:

July 26th, 2008, 6:45 am

The people arguing over the use of the word ‘zen’ obviously have not taken into context it’s full meaning. ‘Zen’ and arguments should never be used in the same sentence. It just doesn’t make sense.

I think She really hit that home in the last paragraph. What is worth fighting over if you don’t understand it? Seems like a popular theme these days, no?

http://www.YinVsYang.com

Stephen Smith Says:

July 26th, 2008, 8:09 am

Thanks for the comments folks, I have been reading this blog since the beginning, and it never ceases to amaze me that so many people seem to come here for the first time and shout, “That’s not Zen!”
I agree with Andre that it is likely to be people referred by search engines that have a lower level of web savvy.

Khürt Williams Says:

July 26th, 2008, 8:38 am

The word had no meaning unless you give it one. As human beings, for each of us that meaning will be different. For some the word has deep spiritual meaning but for others ( like myself ) it is just a word.

Richard Says:

July 26th, 2008, 9:21 am

I agree with most people here that the name Leo chose shouldn’t necessarily be considered as a true reflection of the word ‘zen’; after all, the content of the blog is the reason why we read it!

*But*, if you choose a word like ‘zen’, which is essentially a name given to one specific facet of Buddhism, then you need to accept that people are going to read into it. It is similar to calling your blog ‘Church of England Habits’, for example, as you are specifically using a word from the lexicon of religion (no puns intended) - you would expect a reaction, and the reaction would be warranted.

That said, the title ‘Zen Habits’ does describe, on a very superficial and largely abstracted level, what many westerners expect ‘zen’ to be, which in turn adequately matches the content of this blog. However, the usage of the word ‘zen’ in this instance is immeasurably far removed from its original meaning. It could demonstrate a lack of understanding about the core of the issues which the author is discussing, or, on the other hand, it doesn’t matter at all. Each to their own…

http://www.cheewit.net

Ishitzu Fuchuova Says:

July 26th, 2008, 9:35 am

Zen is not a blog.

Zen is not a name.

Zen is not an argument.

Zen simply IS.

The mind that argues with Leo is not the mind of Zen.

SpaceAgeSage Says:

July 26th, 2008, 9:56 am

Ishitzu Fuchuova –

Insightfully written!

The Financial Philosopher Says:

July 26th, 2008, 9:57 am

With regard to Zen Habits, the word “Zen” is obviously an adjective, or descriptor, for “Habits,” which would indicate a pursuit to form habits that are “zen-like” but not necessarily Zen itself.

The blog and Leo would appear imposterous if the title were “I Am Zen,” which is obviously not the case.

The blog title, Leo and his readers as a collective, do not pretend to be Zen itself but on “the path” toward Zen, which indicates that “Zen Habits” is a perfectly apt title for this pursuit…

In essence, we are not Zen but simply on a path toward it… with the goal of “becoming the path” in our daily lives…

“You cannot tread the Path before you become the Path yourself.” ~ Zen saying

Marc and Angel Hack Life Says:

July 26th, 2008, 11:10 am

Zen is all about awareness and flexibility… it’s a process not a static state. If this website helps others improve their awareness… it’s zen-like in my mind.

mike k Says:

July 26th, 2008, 12:53 pm

“The only zen on top of a mountain is the zen you bring up there”

katie Says:

July 26th, 2008, 13:52 pm

Wonderful post and discussion. Thanks to all involved.

Having done some study in Buddhism and Zen, I admit I had a question in my mind about Leo’s use of the word when I first found this blog. But, the idea of Zen as compassionate, radical simplicity is how I hear him using it. And as Laurel and commentators above have observed, I find his approach entirely respectful and beneficial.

I benefit from this blog and am grateful that Leo writes it.

Gedu Hedowta Yoaz Says:

July 26th, 2008, 14:09 pm

Zen is the very essence of what you think it is. As you would have it be, so Zen is.

Laurel Vogel at Ninth Elegy Says:

July 26th, 2008, 16:13 pm

I’m amazed and grateful for all of the thoughtful and insightful comments here. It’s wonderful to see discussion going on about a “non-concept” like Zen. Maybe this is how we “take back” a word from over-commercialization–by putting it out there for open, honest, and respectful discussion. Thanks everyone.

Pedro Says:

July 26th, 2008, 16:19 pm

Hello all,

i’ve been reading Zen Habits for quite some time now, but never left a comment. I simply don’t feel the need to comment on things. Either they make sense to me or they don’t. If there is something i don’t understand i ask for an explanation, but try not to argue, specially on the internet.
On both posts there is much talk of what Zen is and isn’t, on what are it’s uses on what it is used for, good or bad, right or wrong.
Well, to me, Zen is just a word. a Monk calls it Zen, i can call it something else and achieve the same goals, have the same results, or not.
We humans have the need to create words to define everything allowing us to communicate with each other. But how to define feelings, states of mind and other non-palpable things? What to me is a simple sadness can be a full blown depression to the next person, it all depends on a person’s definition of sadness and depression.
So, what is Zen? What exactly is the definition of zen. To me is one thing, to a budhist it is another, to the writer of Zen Habits even another. Sure, there are similarities between definitions, but it’s not excatly the same. The best defininition i can find in myself is that Zen is a state of being and doing. The author of the blog feels he can help other people with his posts, well he can. I totally agree that there is nothing to argue about in here.
I do not read every single post in Zen Habits, there are somethings that appeal to my own life and others that don’t, but i am very gratefull for finding Zen Habits, it has helped me to achieve a different way of life, a different state of mind. I may not go on and do what it is said on the posts i read, but i do get inspired by them.
So, thank you Leo. Thank you for Zen Habits.

Benoit Says:

July 26th, 2008, 17:23 pm

Sorry to be a bit offtopic here but your link on the bottom to her blog points to http://zenhabits.net/wp-admin/Seattlerelationalcounseling.com/blog

Debs Says:

July 26th, 2008, 17:28 pm

Nice post! I sit with a Soto Zen group in Seattle, and also met with Norman Fischer and heard him read from his book a few weeks ago when he was in town.

I like your take on zen and sitting as simplicity. That’s what I like about it, that something ordinary, simple and accessible can also be transformative.

Debs
gofrolic.org

Ken Allan Says:

July 26th, 2008, 18:37 pm

Tēnā koutou katoa!

Kia ora Laurel.

I have not studied Zen, at least not to any detailed extent but I have respect for Zen wisdom. I also admire the way that such wisdom has been passed on through teaching, which is my profession.

Far from simplistic, what I have appreciated about Zen is the depth of thinking. That thinking often appears to be simplistic yet can be applied appropriately within a huge range of disciplines. This universal applicability is hardly simple. It is a complexity that is recursively elaborate and extends far within the disciplines that it touches.

My lack of full knowledge of Zen brought me an awareness of possible misinterpretations when I recently posted 5 explanations of a Zen proverb. So I apologise here to those who feel that my interpretations contravene that of another who has a deep understanding of Zen.

Ka kite

Lisa | Holistic Treatment for Depression Says:

July 26th, 2008, 20:45 pm

I haven’t studied Zazen and I wasn’t aware of a debate on the use of the word, but I find it interesting that there is one. I guess I took the use of the word Zen in this context to mean a sort of self-less, ego-less approach to a committment to self — in this case, a “zen” approach to creating habits that done daily, create a more happy life. I think it works, and I like it.
Lisa

Leonard J. Waks Says:

July 26th, 2008, 21:13 pm

When we walk out and see the lovely sunlight as it plays through the trees and casts shadows on the lawn we are spontaneously happy. That is zen. When we are feeling very relaxed at night after a full and satisfying day that is zen. That is doing and not-doing an effortless art.

It is true that evil can try to steal and package the sunlight and sell it to us, or can try to steal our relaxation and sell it, or steal the water and bottle it and make us feel small and shameful for drinking a cool glass of water from a spring instead of a bottle of packaged water from the cooller in the grocery store. There is no end of evil.

Why get entangled and fight evil with counter-evil. Think good thoughts spontaneously, share the joy, be happy. The Buddha said that if anyone wanted to be the leader of the group, let him take the lead. If anyone wants to share zen, who is to say he cannot?

Dot H. Says:

July 26th, 2008, 22:48 pm

Thanks so much to the author for educating us with a small part of what Zen is to her. I agree with several others that a word is just a word. Years ago I published an article in a feminist magazine arguing the same thing.

It does seem that some people get overly passionate about their faith or spiritual practice, to the point of intolerance of others, even though intolerance usually isn’t part of the philosophy of their own faith or spirituality.

For me, the bottom line is that Leo does seem genuine, as another commenter pointed out, and he had no ill intentions in choosing that name.

Now I’d like to talk about the term “easy breezy,” which is being done to death in the advertising world. “Breezy” does not mean simple! Only kidding, only kidding.

Debbi Says:

July 26th, 2008, 23:05 pm

I had no idea anyone was making a fuss about the name of this blog. Did anyone make a huge issue out of the title “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”? If they did, I don’t recall it.

Anyhow, I suppose there will always be someone out there looking for reasons to complain. Which doesn’t sound very Zen to me.

Evelyn Lim | Attraction Mind Map Says:

July 27th, 2008, 6:08 am

I’ve made the same observation myself. It’s interesting that there seems to be an influx of words like “monk” or “zen” used in the domain names of many more sites now than say one year ago.

I’m also of the opinion that a name is just a name. I’d be more interested to read the content and know the thoughts of the blogger before becoming a regular subscriber of the said site, rather than sign up rightaway just because he or she has the popular word in the domain name.

Evelyn

Ryan McLean Says:

July 27th, 2008, 7:27 am

This post is really interesting to say the least. Thankyou for this thoughtful insight

Tim Brownson Says:

July 27th, 2008, 9:20 am

Isn’t there a certain sense of irony that people would ever argue over the word Zen? In fact isn’t it almost an oxymoron. Whatever next, people going to war in the name of peace ;-)

Manoj Aithal Says:

July 27th, 2008, 9:36 am

I wonder what Zen monks would make of this debate….. They’d be amused no end I bet!

Rose Garden Says:

July 27th, 2008, 14:04 pm

I found ZenHabits while looking for come information about Eastern philosophies. Zen or not, a year later, I still read Leo’s posts and have changed some of my own habits.

peace

Madness Manual Says:

July 27th, 2008, 16:38 pm

Benoit already mentioned this, but I am not the admin of Laurel’s blog. I’m fairly sure the link is supposed to be: http://www.seattlerelationalcounseling.com/blog/

In any event, that’s the blog I’ve subscribed to.

Leo Says:

July 27th, 2008, 17:11 pm

Thanks for all the comments, everyone. It’s been an interesting discussion. I’ve been away from my computer for a couple days, but I’m enjoying the comments.

Also, thanks for pointing out the broken link. It’s been changed to what it should have been:

http://seattlerelationalcounseling.com/blog/

And thanks, Laurel, for the post … it’s nice to hear different perspectives from time to time, and I think she has more understanding than I do about this issue.

As I’ve said before, the “Zen” in the title of this blog (which was started, btw, without any thought of commercial success) was simply to remind myself to be present in all of my endeavors, habit changes and all. The blog has grown way, way beyond what I envisioned for it … I’m not complaining, just pointing out that I never intended to co-opt the word “Zen” for commercial purposes.

Matt DeStefano Says:

July 27th, 2008, 19:06 pm

What a great post - if Zen is truly a useful idea/practice, it should be useful to all of us. Leo’s site certainly has, and even though this is a guest post I just wanted to thank you Leo for all you do with your site. I mentioned you on my first post, because hopefully I can produce quality content as you have during my future as a blogger.

Thank you Leo!

tzumeister Says:

July 27th, 2008, 23:27 pm

Leo -

buddy in my humble opinion you are giving this a life of its own by even answering these monkeys who portend to “know” zen and somehow feel offended by its use - as though it is theirs?

hilarious, indeed!

seriously, do recommend you drop this “debate” and your defensive stance on the use of the word! unless you are using this as a way to insight some debate/commentary. then, go for it! but, i sensed you’ve been hurt by those who understand not what they say.

so to recap - you, who tell leo what he can call zen and write about need to go make better use of your time. yes, that would be a ZEN habit.

all the best leo, keep up the great work

Leo Says:

July 28th, 2008, 5:15 am

@tzumeister: I hear you, but truthfully I enjoy these debates! :)

I confess to that guilty pleasure — arguments over the meanings of words is one of my favorite pastimes. And I’ve never been afraid of a little criticism — I think it’s healthy, and it’s a good thing in my book. I get better with criticism, and I welcome it.

Mary@GoodlifeZen Says:

July 28th, 2008, 6:46 am

Well done, Laurel! I enjoyed your post.

My blog also carries a Zen name: Goodlife Zen. Some of my colleagues (I teach Zen in Robert Aitken’s Diamond Sangha lineage) are upset with me because of this :-)

If we uphold Zen as something precious that is higher, purer, sacred and altogether different from ordinary, everyday life - we’ll be affronted by the use of the word in wordly contexts.

But is Zen really different from waking up in the morning, having a cup of coffee, going out to work, eating, sleeping, making love - and all the other wonderfilled moments that make up a life?

kerry Says:

July 28th, 2008, 8:44 am

zen comes from zazen—in the attainment of awakening, so its not different from yoga ?

Jonathan B. Says:

July 28th, 2008, 10:08 am

This is interesting, but personally I don’t care if Leo called it HappyHabits or ZenHabits or BunnyHabits or what. What is more important? Me or my name (Jonathan)? My name is just what people call me but it’s not who I am. This blog is similar.

Leslie-Ann Says:

July 28th, 2008, 11:58 am

Laurel, thank you for such a wonderful post. It really shows that you have taken some time to think.

It inspired me to think, or perhaps I should say, reflect. Even if the struggle for me is not what Zen means, or means in the context of this blog, it made me think of what is important to me and the way in which it is portrayed in society.

It also made me realize that while I, like Leo, would like to share my interpretation of the important things in life, it doesn’t do any good to get all worked up about the accuracy of mine or another’s interpretation. As long as I’ve reflected and given it real thought, and have found true meaning in my interpretation and continue to grow, then it’s a good thing.

Thanks to you as well Leo, I love your site and have enjoyed your perspective on many topics.

Carol Says:

July 28th, 2008, 12:04 pm

Great Article! Thank You.

My favorite part is at the end: “The real problem with Zen as it currently exists in the modern mind, is the perception that it is something separate from us — something special. In my practice, I see it as something that is everyday, ordinary. It is also extraordinary! Thrilling! Unusual. It’s all of that. And, it needs to be accessible, like the breath. Something we can turn to at any time, in any way that we need it.”

Zendad Says:

July 28th, 2008, 12:08 pm

If it’s promoting positive thoughts, actions and changes life for the better, who care’s what label is put on it?
People are so attached to labels…let it go.
Zendad
http://www.zendad.net

Laurel Vogel at Ninth Elegy Says:

July 28th, 2008, 14:01 pm

Thanks again everyone for the variety of comments, and for taking the time to think about “Zen”! I am in agreement with Leo–that if discussion about something as meaningful as Zen is ignited and keeps people thinking about Zen, then this is a beneficial conversation.

To Mary at GoodLifeZen–Nice to hear from an Aitken Roshi person–I have the greatest respect for him and have had a long affiliation with his Dharma heir, Jack Duffy of the Three Treasures Sangha. Your observation about keeping Zen out of the realm of the “special,” and I would add “precious,” arena is astute. (I know Aitken Roshi brings political ideas and real world concerns to his practice and lineage.) The fine line between special (i.e. separate/above/inaccessible) and commercial is the territory we are trying to negotiate in this thread. This line gets blurred, and we all have to keep doing our best to travel it without getting caught up in our stories and projections. And we are doing our best! It’s tricky territory! As much as we want right/wrong/concrete answers, I don’t think it’s that easy.

I’m not in any way trying to give the impression that I have a definitive answer about this. But I am enjoying being in the question with everyone here–it’s interesting to explore and think about, isn’t it? We don’t have to get anywhere, answer anything, or have a final say about this. Maybe the thread does just continue…and that’s okay, too.

kekilia Says:

July 28th, 2008, 14:17 pm

I’m a fan of Leo’s. Period.

garg Says:

July 28th, 2008, 15:46 pm

Does it not go against Zen ideology to create problems or get riled up over the use of the word, “zen”?

The word zen is owned by no one and can be used in what ever way, shape, form. It is just a word or a sound. I’m in danger of sounding loony :) but, “Zen” is not zen. So do what ever you want with those three letters.

Brian Clark Says:

July 28th, 2008, 17:48 pm

Right on. The one thing that’s perplexed me about the readership of Zen Habits is some who complain that certain topics are not “Zen,” thereby demonstrating they have no idea what Zen is about.

But then I just acknowledge it and let it go. :-)

Mark Knox Says:

July 28th, 2008, 18:25 pm

I really can’t believe this is an issue. I found this site a few months ago and subcribed. Since that time, I’ve routinely enjoyed Leo’s essays on life, on work, on fitness and on fatherhood….
Leo’s a man who leads by example. Of course the site’s not perfect- why should it be? It’s as much a record of his own thoughts and struggles as it is anything else. Leo is that character from the old Zen maxim about the finger pointing to the moon. If you simply dwell on the finger, you’ll never see the beauty of the moon.

As the author of this post has said, Zen is as much about simplicity as anything else. No other single term captures the essence of “simplicity”, and all the promise that it holds for our lives, as the term “Zen”. Leo is a good man, with a worthy goal of helping others in their struggles. Do you not think the Buddha would approve?

Myrko Says:

July 28th, 2008, 18:46 pm

I think one note to make is that from my perspective Zen is not about interpretation or Meaning behind it, but about the experience of it. “Enter then from there” (anywhere) said the master to his student who asked how he can get into then. Enlighenment (as is Zen) is not about content, but about the space where the content arises from.

I would really look forward in reading articles about the experience on zenhabit.net :)

Jim Robbins Says:

July 28th, 2008, 20:20 pm

Well! I really don’t care what Leo chooses to call this divine blog of his. He can call it what he wants to! Oh!

ZEN HABITS is a peachy name, Leo! Oh! It sounds so … so SPECIAL … it makes me TINGLE! Ohhh!

I LIKE Leo. I think he’s just FABULOUS. Leo, you good-looking hunk of a man-male, I think you’re just DREAMY. Ohhh! Oh! Your picture makes my heart beat faster, sugar-bunch. You just keep up the good work, honey, and never mind all these BRUTES who mistreat you! OH!

I think ZEN is Leo’s FACE! Ohhh! Oh!

Snuggles, hugs n’ kisses,

Jimbo the Leo Fan

Leo Says:

July 28th, 2008, 22:29 pm

@Jimbo the Leo Fan: Lol! I’ve never been called a “good-looking hunk of man-male” before (aside from my adoring wife, of course). I think I should adopt it as my official title.

Signed,
Leo
Good-looking Hunk of Man-male

Laurel Vogel at Ninth Elegy Says:

July 28th, 2008, 22:54 pm

Yeah, thanks Jimbo! Very funny. Lol.

Philip Says:

July 29th, 2008, 5:06 am

Hi All

Names and labels really mess things up. For me the word Zen has no issue. I do go to AA though and the word God………..really snookered me for a while until i figured out
it could be whatever i felt comfy with and if other people had different viewpoints so what…… : )

dan Says:

July 29th, 2008, 9:34 am

great post. more posts by zen monastics, please!

Ito Taka Says:

July 29th, 2008, 12:58 pm

I am a Zen monk in the Fujoto Isuta tradition, and have lived my life in the Zazentimuma discipline. I was trained by Teacher Ryuma Tokare of the Sota Kameka school.

All talk of “defining” Zen is misplaced and useless. Zazen cannot be constrained to any individual’s understanding. When you are sure you can define it, be assured that it is in fact what you think it is not.

Zen is a blank message space in the midst of these posts.

morgin1013 Says:

July 29th, 2008, 14:29 pm

I’m fairly new to this blog but have found it very informative and helpful. So to Leo keep up the good work you are doing exactly what you should be. You can see that from all the commenter’s that have expressed that you have helped them or informed them in some way. I do want to say that I have noticed on any blog or forum, or article with comments that someone always has to trash talk, or complain, or be rude, or argue. I think it’s because people think of the internet as anonymous so they think can act or speak however they want without consequences.The simple truth is on the internet people will flame you and more often then not it’s more about them then anything you’ve said or done. You can’t make everyone happy (especially on the internet) you’d drive yourself crazy even trying to and that’s not very “zen”.

Jack Says:

July 29th, 2008, 16:20 pm

The one definitive message of the entire post is found in the very last line of type:

“check out her book”

For sale, right?

Tom Stine | Spiritual Life Coach Says:

July 29th, 2008, 19:12 pm

While I agree with everything Laurel says, I must admit that there is something amusing at times in some of the positions Leo takes on a blog called Zen Habits. I recall one in particular where he sounded so rational, Western and scientific that it made MY preconceived notions of what a blog with Zen in the title should be get all excited. I simply had to respond to that one. :-)

I suspect, though, that as long as the blog is Zen Habits, there will be lots of folks show up looking for something more seemingly “spiritual.” Isn’t that to be expected? And the comments will continue. I, for one, will always smile, though, when I hear Leo sounding “un-Zen” in one of his posts.

For like it or not, Zen, no matter how abstractly we attempt to define it or open we try to make it sound, will still carry for most of us spiritual if not, dare I say, religious connotations. Simply the nature of the beast! So, while I don’t agree with the dissenters, I can certainly see their point of view.

tzumeister Says:

August 8th, 2008, 15:37 pm

recommend you back it up about 3 messages to ITO TAKA’s message. this is what i attempted to convey about 20 messages prior.

YOU know NOT what zen is

as soon as you label it you’ve lost it

“zen is the space between the posts”
nicely done ITO

Laurel Vogel at Ninth Elegy Says:

August 26th, 2008, 16:03 pm

@Jack–yes, do check out the book Leo was so kind to mention here. It’s a memoir of my father’s death by alcoholism, and I wrote it to help others heal their lives through relational therapy and emotion-focused therapy. At this point, I have made no money from the book, and, in fact, will probably not ever break even on it. But it had to be written. My partner and I self-published so that it could be available to others who want to do this deep healing work.

@Ito Taka/Tzumeister–I mostly agree…and I don’t think zen leaves out the posts or the space between them. It’s there in everything. That’s real non-dualism–it contains both the spaces in between and the substance…Thanks for your comments everyone!