Cheap but great dates

chris Says:

March 28th, 2007, 9:50 am

Don’t pay for dates — whatever you do, split bills. If you need to spend a lot of money on dates you haven’t succeeded to get the woman interested and attracted. First get her interested during conversation, then spend quality time together, don’t try it the other way round. And remember: you’re the prize.

Also, it’s a good filter. Girls who want to be taken out for expensive dates will also expect you to do so later in a “relationship”. How do you call women who you have to pay? Right, Prostitutes.

Nneka Says:

March 28th, 2007, 11:09 am

My husband showed me the Orion constellation while we were dating. It’s been 15 years since he did. Every time I look up at night and see Orion, I think of him. I thought he was so smart. Very sexy!

Another one he did was a trip to the botannical gardens.

Adam Lehman Says:

March 28th, 2007, 12:49 pm

Thanks for the list. I’ll be sure to try these out. Now the trick is making the girls think I made these ideas up myself.

Keep up the good work.

zenhabits Says:

March 28th, 2007, 15:22 pm

@Chris: Thanks for the comment. I’m not sure I agree, but you are certainly entitled to that opinion. I’m probably just old-fashioned, but I still believe in paying for dates, opening doors for women, and treating them with respect. If I paid for a date with a woman, I never considered her a prostitute — especially as I didn’t feel that she owed me any services in return. But, that being said, if your date is willing to split the bill, you probably do have a winner — be aware, however, that many women will split the bill but secretly consider you a loser because of it. It’s a dating ritual that’s kinda hardwired in our genes, I think.

@Nneka: Thanks for sharing! Your husband does sound smart.

@Adam: Let me know if any work for you!

David Says:

March 28th, 2007, 15:49 pm

These are great tips…I especially like the beach one as we there already!

zenhabits Says:

March 28th, 2007, 15:59 pm

Stop showing off, David! :)

For those of you who haven’t read David’s post on the sacrifices he and his wife made to live by the beach, check it out:

Making the Financial Sacrifice to Get What You Want.

Thanks for the comment, David. - leo

David Says:

March 28th, 2007, 16:30 pm

Ha! If it makes you feel better, its only 61 here today. Cold by our standards!

Damon Says:

March 28th, 2007, 19:13 pm

@nneka: orion is great compared to Uranus
What, someone had to say it.

For the married with kids crowd, everything starts with getting a sitter.

zenhabits Says:

March 28th, 2007, 19:43 pm

Oh, Damon … you didn’t have to say it. :)

But you’re right on about getting a sitter. My wife and I try to get a sitter and go out on a date every couple weeks, although we’d like to make it a weekly affair. - leo

Ryan Says:

March 29th, 2007, 2:54 am

Hiking is my current cheap date.

I read a Men’s Health article a few months ago that said that men pay 70% of the time on a date; I think that’s interesting because my personal experience is the man pays 98% of the time and the rest of the time it’s Dutch :)

zenhabits Says:

March 29th, 2007, 3:02 am

Thanks for the comment, Ryan … and hiking is a great idea. Especially if you have a woman not afraid to get a little dirty.

In my experience, men pay a lot more than 70 percent … which I don’t mind at all. If the man and woman end up getting together, they’ll be sharing expenses anyway. Paying for a few dates isn’t a big deal. - leo

chris Says:

March 29th, 2007, 5:05 am

@zenhabit

I also like the gentleman-ideal very much, the core of which, IMO, is gracefully and naturally treating a lady with respect. Opening doors is a very nice example, btw: A gentleman is at the door before the woman and smoothly opens it without making a big thing out of it. The wannabe gentleman realizes too late that he should open it, almost has to jump to reach it first, rips it open and expects a “thank you” — how needy. It took me quite a while to do it right :)

Still I consider paying for dates an anachronism, from a time when most women didn’t have jobs and the natural way was a housewife/working husband situation. Back then, a guy had to show he was also financially potent.

At least among the younger women, i.e . college age, those who want the guys to pay for everything, aren’t those who respect men very much, usually.

zenhabits Says:

March 29th, 2007, 6:02 am

Hi Chris, thanks for your comment. I agree that it is an anachronism (and, like I said, I’m old-fashioned so I probably am an anachronism too), but one thing to be aware of is what the woman will think of you if you ask her to go dutch. Sure, I understand what you’re saying about women who want guys to pay for everything and who don’t respect men … there’s a point there … but at the same time, I think many women still have at least a subconscious notion that the man will pay on a date, especially if he’s the one who asked her out. I think it would be weird to ask someone to dinner, for example, and then ask them to pay.

I don’t know. I may be out of touch with the younger generation (although I’m only 33) … but in my mind, women respect men more who insist on paying, and respect men less who ask them to go dutch. It may be an anachronism, but I think it’s hard-wired. Women can support themselves nowadays, and want to be independent, but there’s still a dating ritual that goes back as far as humans have existed … and I’m not sure that ritual has completely changed, even today. Like I said, I could be wrong.

It’s an interesting discussion, though, and I love your input! I’d also love to hear from others on this topic.

meandering Says:

March 29th, 2007, 6:30 am

Great ideas, Leo! It just goes to show that creativity goes a long way. You don’t need a special talent to impress.

I seem to agree with Chris, although I wouldn’t put it as strongly, as he did. But I would find it strange if a girl EXPECTED to have everything paid by me. It just would press the right buttons with me, actually some alarm bell would go off instead.

There is a lot to be said for generosity and donations. I am all for it, but it’s not a good idea to DEMAND your birthday present. If kids do that, they usually get told off. If you like to buy a treat, go for it. If the girl is on your wavelength, she’ll live by similar priciples.

Well, as ever, there’s horses for courses, as they say…

meandering Says:

March 29th, 2007, 6:37 am

sorry, I should read: “would not press the right buttons” ;-)

I guess I don’t do rituals but just spend time with people who seem to have the same inclination. Rituals are too formal and complicated for me and they are not part of my life. Having said that, if I invite someone for dinner, I wouldn’t expect them to do the cooking. LOL!

P.S. Hope you’ve recovered and feel well again, Leo.

reader Says:

March 29th, 2007, 10:09 am

Zenhabits,

You’re absolutely right.

Treat a woman with respect, and offer to pay dates. Just take her somewhere cheaper (or free). It’s not that the woman *can’t* pay, it’s that she (sometimes) likes being treated. It’s pleasant.

offthemarket Says:

March 29th, 2007, 10:29 am

I didn’t date a ton so I’m not sure what’s normal, but from this woman’s perspective, when a guy asked me out on a date I did expect him to pay. I would offer to pay just to let him set the tone of what he wanted but they always paid. I had some guy friends and we would go out as chums, in that case I would pay–occasionally we’d pick up the tab for a coffee or something for the other. But in the chum to date transition, the guy would pick up the tab. For me I think the expectation for this was one part he was asking for the privilege of my time and company in a special setting and one part I wanted to know if he would graciously and generously provide.

My husband earned about 10 times what I did when we were dating and would never let me pay, which I respected. But we scaled back our dates after things were pretty stable which I respected him for and enjoyed. I wasn’t with him because he could spend money on me.

Ah well, I’m probably old-fashioned too (at 27). But FWIW I’m also incredibly happy.

(Here via GetRichSlowly)

Cathryn Says:

March 29th, 2007, 11:39 am

Nice ideas!

Re paying for dates, personally, I feel very uncomfortable with guys who insist on paying, particularly if it happens more than once and they don’t seem to feel comfortable with me reciprocating. Normally, I date people who earn a similar amount to me, and I can’t see any reason why they should always pay. Occasionally someone will absolutely insist - its normally indicative of some fairly old-fashioned ideas about how relationships might work, and probably not for me.

Sarah Says:

March 29th, 2007, 12:04 pm

I would expect a gentleman to pay for a date he asked me on, just as I would pay for a date that I asked him out on. It seems that whoever asks should do the treating. This is nice because you can take turns asking each other to do things you enjoy, and each pick the level of spending that you’re comfortable with. (And if you’re viewing dating as leading to marriage, then you definitely want to know if you’re compatible spenders.)

Ben Says:

March 29th, 2007, 14:17 pm

If you’re near a region where there are many wineries around I would recommend wine tasting for a cheap date. Most charge nothing to a few $ for a tasting. Hitting 3 wineries in an afternoon is a great (cheap) way to have some fun and enjoy some wine.

Emil Says:

March 29th, 2007, 14:31 pm

1. good massage 2. Picnic 3. Festivals . The rest is kinde of boring :)

Bruce Says:

March 29th, 2007, 15:14 pm

I am old fashioned (at 48), but I have daughters who are 18 & 19 and are both dating. I thought what Sarah posted made a lot of sense and that fits with what my girls are doing. Before asking my oldest out, her current beau asked her friend about opening doors. The response was, “Heck, yeah! At least if you want to go out a second time!”
I would add taking a frisbee or a kite to a nearby park as additional ideas.

Bobby Says:

March 29th, 2007, 15:43 pm

Me and my girlfriend argue playfully about who will pay. She has a very strong and independant spirit and that is one of the many things I love about her. Usually when I know it’s important to her, I’ll let her pay for her part, but I at least insist on paying for my own. Sometimes with women like that you can turn it into a sort of game.
For example: We decided to order some coffee, and she wouldn’t order until I ordered first ensuring she could pay. I paid with a $20 and told the cashier that if she uses the change from that $20 to cover the girl behind me, she can keep the remaining amount as a tip. She did so, and my girlfriend was suprised and a bit impressed at the clever trick. She’s managed to trick me a few times too.

The point is, you can work your beliefs and quarks into the relationship as a part of the relationship. It’s the over all picture of a person that you like, but it’s the details that make you love.

And as for being behind the times…
There are as many different opinions amongst women on the subject of ‘paying for dates’ as there are types of women. I have dated a great deal of women and there usually is just a handful of kinds of women.

Those that insist you pay, and they are usually after a man with money, which I am not. Occasionally they will do this because you were such a crappy date too though.

Then there are those that will offer to pay or at least reach for the bill. They are usually of the notion that a man can/should pay but are not going to be forceful of their beliefs or are at least polite enough to pretend to be willing to pay.

The third type is the independant type who are very into paying for themselves. They usually come from a large family. They tend to be determined to pay at least for themselves. Unless your close enough to playfully sneak in paying, they generally can actually become upset if you pay.

When I first started dating my current girlfriend she literally forced some money in my pants pocket because I had paid. I realized then how important is was by her expression, so I made a clever stripper joke(to accept the money without changing character), and when her expression changed and she laughed, I decided I’d always reach but if she is insisting strongly, I’ll let her cover her share. And just as I expected, she comes from a big family and she doesn’t like feeling babied or taken care of. She’s afraid it means she owes something, but since then she’s more relaxed and will let me pay fairly often now.

I think I wrote too much. Sorry.

-Bobby

zenhabits Says:

March 29th, 2007, 15:45 pm

Thanks, everyone, for the great comments. I find the dating custom discussion especially interesting! I also loved the ideas for cheap dates, like the winery and frisbee and kite … thanks for contributing to the discussion. - leo

zenhabits Says:

March 29th, 2007, 15:53 pm

@Bobby: Thanks for the great comment! And don’t worry, here at Zen Habits, we encourage long answers.

As for what you said, I think you’re right … women are different, and they should each be treated differently. But my advice to men on the dating scene is to at least try to insist on paying … if it’s an issue, and she really wants to split it, well, it’s not worth fighting about. Treat her with respect in all cases, and don’t let it ruin the fun.

Cade Says:

March 29th, 2007, 17:54 pm

These are all awesome ideas, great post.

One of my favorite dates I did with a girl was to get a couple of disposable cameras (or two digital cameras) and walk around downtown taking random pictures of each other and of the scenery. She absolutely loved it and we easily spent three hours on a summer afternoon running around town. You can then get the pictures developed and (if she’s into it) have her make a scrapbook.

zenhabits Says:

March 29th, 2007, 18:34 pm

Thanks, Cade. I love that date idea! Very creative and fun. - leo

Katrineholm Review Says:

March 29th, 2007, 21:21 pm

The cheapest date is not to date at all. Just go live in a monastery.

zenhabits Says:

March 29th, 2007, 21:38 pm

That’s true. But dating’s just so fun, it’s worth the small expense. Thanks for the suggestion.

andshewas Says:

March 30th, 2007, 11:34 am

I love the article…I’m a chick who digs cheap dates! I’d like to add that if you are lucky enough (as I am) to live near large bodies of water, canoeing and kayaking are awesome dates. Canoeing especially establishes a very necessary trust in a relationship. I was scared to death of tipping the canoe and my man was very reassuring and it was a lot of fun! Tote a cooler with some beers along and its even better. You get a workout too, so it’s a very productive date!

Eric Says:

March 30th, 2007, 14:23 pm

In response to Chris’ first post, I feel the need to defend him a little. I understand what he was getting at. In my experience, most ‘nice’ guys end up getting walked on when they attempt to be chivalrous. They treat the woman like a goddess when they don’t even know if she’s deserving of such treatment yet. While I do think it’s important to show concern and care for someone and do such things as paying for the date, opening doors etc. - it should be coming from a place of self-confidence and care/protection, and not from a place of “please like me if I do things for you.” I think that’s what Chris was trying to say.

While, ideally we would like to think that most women would see a nice guy and think ‘how lucky am I!?’ - in reality many (if not most) women see that and either conciously or unconciously think ‘what a wuss…’ or that they can take advantage of him. In my experience, it’s important to feel someone out (err…not literally) and determine if they’re a good, quality individual before you treat them as such. I think you should give them the benefit of the doubt, but don’t get into the habit of buying their attention - either with money or by doing nice things.

Erik Says:

March 30th, 2007, 14:25 pm

Great article. I could use some of your suggestions.

Kauf Says:

March 30th, 2007, 15:18 pm

I guess I’m a lucky guy, my girlfriend gets mad at me if I try to pay for everything, lol. If we go out for dinner and a movie, I make sure I pick up the bigger tab and let her pay the smaller one.

Great ideas though, I know sometimes I want to go out but none of the movies interest me, or her. Summer time is always better, eagerly awaiting it.

Derek Says:

March 30th, 2007, 15:33 pm

I took a girl to a man made lake and we skipped rocks. She still to this day talks about how fun it was and still wants to do it. Very romantic.

mdm-adph Says:

March 30th, 2007, 17:31 pm

Paying for dinner? I smell a double standard.

zenhabits Says:

March 30th, 2007, 17:45 pm

Thanks for all the great comments, guys.

@Eric: I agree completely with what you said about not trying to buy affection. And I wasn’t trying to attack Chris, and I hope it didn’t come off that way. I just don’t think that a woman is a prostitute if they allow the man to pay … there are no services being bought, in my opinion. It’s just a matter of custom (which might be out of date). But thank you for your insight.

@mdm-adph: You’re right, of course. It’s a double standard. Like I said, I’m old fashioned. I don’t think women should be kept at home, or should have any less rights than men, or should even be put up on a pedestal or treated like an object of beauty or affection … but I still feel compelled to pay for dinner and open doors. Maybe I should rethink that.

Calvin Says:

March 31st, 2007, 19:19 pm

I can get behind most of these - they’re pretty tried and true standards. But, uh, Treasure Hunts? Everything about that one strikes me as absurd for anyone over the age of 10. And you’re supposed to tag along with them? Most women I’ve known, if they’d even go along with it to begin with, would assuredly lose their friggin’ patience before the third step and just demand you take them to the stupid destination already.

zenhabits Says:

March 31st, 2007, 22:06 pm

Hi Calvin … well, a treasure hunt wouldn’t work for many women … but this isn’t a first-date date … it’s more for someone you’ve been dating for a little while. If you make all the destinations special places for the two of you (where you first kissed, etc), then it’s like a walk down memory lane. But again, if you think it wouldn’t work for the woman you’re taking out, don’t do it. You have to have a feel for the woman, and for what she’d be up for. Thanks for the comment! - leo

zenhabits Says:

April 2nd, 2007, 0:34 am

Thanks, Brett, glad you liked the article. As I said, it’s really just meant to inspire people to think of their own ideas. Kind of a jumping-off board. Thanks for your positive input. - leo

Sarah Anne Says:

April 4th, 2007, 22:40 pm

One of the ways my boyfriend and I have found to go out for a good meal without blowing our paychecks is by splitting the entree. We get a great appetizer, a couple glasses of wine, and then when it comes to ordering the appetizer, we ‘double the starch,’ so to speak. For instance, if we’re at a steakhouse (one that gives you a salad and potato, not where they give you a piece of meat and everything else is extra), we order an appetizer and a single entree with a side of rice (my boyfriend LOVES rice; being from Idaho, I’ll take that loaded potato any day). This works for us because his apppetite is a lot bigger than mine, so we adjust portions to suit that. It’s worked out well for us-we get a great meal, we don’t walk out feeling like we’ve eaten enough to last us a week, and we haven’t gone broke either.

When it comes to paying, I think it comes to communicating. As a female, I’ve always at least OFFERED to split the bill, and for girls who are dating, I think that’s a good way to go. That’s just my opinion, of course…

Motorcycle Guy Says:

April 22nd, 2007, 13:53 pm

I normally just take my girlfriend to family night on tuesday (half-price burgers) then to half-price night at the dollar movies. If she’s lucky I spend $5 on her.

Guard952 Says:

May 22nd, 2007, 21:29 pm

On the topic of the stars, on our after highschool camp, a mate was tuning the girl he fancied, pointing out constellations in the sky.
I overheard and corrected him in front of her - he was so embarrased. I was young and naive at the time, I hadn’t even noticed he was tuning the girl. Ah well, good times!

Persuasion Power Says:

July 31st, 2007, 5:14 am

One of the best dates I ever had was to assemble a balsa plane together over a rocky cliff. It took us 3 hours then we flew the plane till evening.

Didn’t cost a thing and the connection was incredible!

Night Owl Says:

August 9th, 2007, 14:06 pm

This is really helpful! Specially in moments when youre financially tight.

Twentysomething Says:

August 27th, 2007, 13:11 pm

Me and my bf tried watching meteors in the outdoors. On our 1st night we didn’t see any. But on our 3rd or 4th night, we saw one. We even wished that our love will last 4ever after that. u may find it cheesy and corny but hey, love is cheesy and corny. And the moment was priceless!

phantomdata Says:

December 28th, 2007, 17:42 pm

I’m a bit late to the party, having stumbled here from your “best of” post.

With regards to the meteor showers, wikipedia has a nice listing of the major ones up @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_showers and there’s a more significant list @ http://www.imo.net/calendar/2007. Personally, I like the Geminids in Winter because I love the cold and snow. Most people don’t though, so the Perseids in August are a bit more… romantic except for the plethora of bugs that come to join you.

Lana Says:

December 31st, 2007, 16:39 pm

I won’t let any man pay anything for me on the first date. Let him decide he likes me before he puts money down. After the first date, I think it’s fair to assume sometimes he’ll treat, or sometimes I might go out of my way to make a nice dinner for him. But I like to split things down the middle most of the time. My current boyfriend and I had a talk about this early on. Maybe it’s not too romantic, but we both knew where we stood. Sometimes it can be uncomfortable for a woman dating someone new to have him pay - you don’t know what he expects back from you. Sure, lots of men are nice. But some men feel like you owe them something if they pay for your dinner. Yuck.

But, back to the nice stuff. On our second date, my current boyfriend and I packed a picnic, then picked a direction and drove until we found a place to stop and eat it. It was a great adventure and we both wound up someplace we’d never been before, at a little playground picnic area twenty minutes away. And the drive was great for talking, since we didn’t know where we were going or when we’d be there.

Fara Dori Says:

February 14th, 2008, 1:40 am

i love cheap dates!! hee

Daisy Says:

March 11th, 2008, 1:17 am

I can relate to what Chris said in a way but opposite too. As a women born in the city, most guys here want the girls get the job, go to college and be the busy modern girl. Because if I would one day like to be a stay at home eco mom who also wants to do some web design, that is seem as lazy for some reason.
I actually do not like for people to always pay for my meals (a date like the movie tickets I don’t mind as much) but it’s always nice to have the guy offer and I guess it shows he’s interested and trying. But I think after a few dates with the same person, a women should have at least offered once by then.

It seems that the old ways are just getting blurred and that people think things should be a certain way but not every person is the same nor think the same things make them happy but you just have to work on them together and can’t always except “something better to come along” with a person because no one is perfect. Open mind is key if you ask me. I know many women want some guys to be a certain way but you can’t except that out of anyone.

Well moveover, I was trying to find some greener holiday/ date ideas and came across this page. I love a lot of it and even have some more that I am sure I will post on the internet somewhere one day.

1) Go to a zoo, everglades, wildlife part, or somewhere else you can learn and see about different types of animals.

2) Go somewhere beautiful or interesting and take/ share digital photos you took that day and even make a slide show online like on photobucket. [Green: Only print out if you really need to.]

3) If it’s Halloween or a costume party, do go to a local thrift store and dress up/ create your own costumes together. I am sure it will be tons of laughs too.

Well that’s all I got for right now anyways. I think you did a good job of covering a lot of good ones :)

Frugal Dad Says:

April 5th, 2008, 18:06 pm

These are some great ideas! Proof positive that one does not have to spend a fortune to have a great time. Thanks for putting this together.

Minky Mouse Says:

May 12th, 2008, 9:38 am

I totally agree with what Lana said

I don’t think the guy should always pay for dinner if you go out to dinner, but perhaps the first couple of times it makes the lady feel special like she’s being treated. Money can become too much of an issue and get in the way.

In order to make sure that the lady is not trying to take the guy for a ride, and just get out of him what she can, it’s probably sensible to go for a drink, or some other sort of date where there is less focus on who is paying for it, where you can get to know each other first. Going for a walk in nice surroundings, going to a zoo or gallery or museum if you’re into that sort of thing, or to a comedy night. Anywhere you can focus on each other, but with a few distractions to take the pressure away.

Then it should become easier to tell if you get on well and you’re not just going to be taken advantage of. Then it’s nice for the guy to pay for a meal out if he can afford it, or otherwise perhaps to cook one. That’s always good too (and cheaper)